Depending on their 200m pb, 6x200 in 26 sec model would get them under 50. I did it with my grade 12 kid last spring. He hid the first 5 of 6 in 26 with jog recoveries. 1 week later, broke 50.
Just to let you know, one of my guys had his first hit out using a peaking strategy (just as a test run). For the last 6 weeks we have been building up speed volume due to him missing 4 weeks with illness (similar to Gland Fever).
The athlete run a seasons best, about half a second faster than 2 weeks before when he was under a heavier load. So happy with the result, the athlete sent me a message (as I was at a function) saying I didn’t run hard enough in the first 200, our aim was 26 he thinks he hit high 26-low27. After Christmas we will implement more of this thread with the aim being to perform in March.
Training has been steady and my activity on this forum has been really reduced. As most of the needs are now found in my 400 M training Bible.
I am still working with a modified template that KK shared here already for some years, but now i get older my body doesn’t respond as good (easily injured)
For this year in the winter I focussed mainly on acc work, runs up to 150m, aerobic tempo, body weight circuits to prevent injury. Untill now it seems to work, although I do have my tight hamstrings and a chronic calf problem that’s controllable at the moment.
recovery is massages and using my LLLT device and allot of showers(warm and sometimes contrast).
I have started getting into the transition after doing a 4 week GPP from the KK template. That went okay.
Now I have some trouble into the SPP because speed is going up a bit rapidly. I changed the template to build up to 300m(+150) runs and the 5x200m with 2’ breaks in an alternative way and hoping it will keep me injury free.
I still compare my training times with my best year(2006 setting pb’s in 100/10.80 to 400/48.30). some traning results are:
2x4x150 walk/jog/walk -15’ av 19.4(set 1)-av 19.0(set2) (late GPP)
300+150 34.8-19.6
This year i was really missing speed in the frst 4 weeks of the GPP, and now getting into SPP times are going down more rapidly than anticipated. My questionis what to do.
Last week i ran a 250-200-180-150 in 31.5-24.6-22.2-18.2 with a 10~12 min break after a 4x80
This week: 250-200 in 30.5-23.8 I had planned to do more runs, but because of the big difference in time i thought it would be best to stop the session to prevent injury. I did stop because in the past I would have run the whole programm and than be destoyed for multiple days…or get injured.
So is this wise to do? I am still in doubt about that. On the one hand I think is was good, to stop so my body can adapt to this step forward. On the other hand I think, I could have run on of my best training runs ever yesterday(but still knowing there was a good change of getting injured).
In the end I think it was a good thing to end the session. What are your thoughts
You did exactly the correct thing. As Charlie always said: “If in doubt, leave it out. When you think you can do one more rep, you have already done one too many.”
Your progress (speed) will continue to come out over the course of your transition into competition. BUt you don’t train to train. You need to make it to the racing track, so steady as she does in training will win the race (or does that only apply to turtles?)
As Kit Kat always says; we don’t want dead heroes; can’t get it through one of my fellow sprinter’s head; I always tell him, if you want to do one more rep you’ve done too many already, he’s always injured, he believes more is better.
Hello all,
As some of you know, I run masters track, teach elementary school and coach track there as well. Well, I just added a new hat, coaching a 200/400m hopeful who has some raw talent, but has a long history of injury problems and inconsistent training.
We decided to give this outdoor season a full effort. Obviously, I am very limited in my ability to maneuver as the season is very near its beginning, so I guess we will have to be realistic about the potential for progress, but I remain hopeful. I think his expectations are probably somewhat optimistic, but I’m not going to say much at the moment.
He ran a few indoor meets this season despite having a painful foot problem. He ran 35 flat FAT in the indoor 300m on a flat track. He ran 6.95 in the 60m as well. I would say that he has some very good natural talent, but training has been very inconsistent, and his training age must be considered low. His technique is not a strength either.
His PB’s are 10.85 in the 100, 21.62 in the outdoor 200m, and 34.80 in the 300m indoors. He is 6’5, so running indoors may not be the best indicator of his overall ability.
He wants to run at the Canadian National trials, thus must achieve 21.60 in the 200m, and 48.30 in the 400m. Nationals are from June 27-30th. As you can see, we’ve got our work cut out for us!
I will keep a journal, but here is the basic breakdown: we did a 6 week GPP, keeping everything on the grass or turf with minimal turn work, followed by a rest/test week. In the test week, he ran the 300m in 34.50 and the 150m in 16.31, both hand timed. They were run outdoors in 4C weather.
We were both slightly disappointed with his times (I don’t know why I was disappointed, he had been doing zero training prior!), but hugely encouraged by his increasing fitness. Prior to the GPP, he would not have been able to run a flat out 300m and walk away as if it was no big deal, then run a 150 about 20 minutes later.
I asked him to run the 300m smoothly, as he usually goes out like a kamikaze and drags ass home, so that may not have helped.
After the rest/test, I transitioned him for about 10 days into some shorter speed work (accels, a couple of 50’s), and we booked a trip to a southern meet with a fantastic track, excellent weather, and an appropriate level of competition. Charlie’s advice from the taper DVD was ringing in my head, “go to the conditions if they wont come to you!”
He had lane 5, +1.7 wind, 25C weather with some humidity, and a bunch of guys running 21-22 to mix it up with. Unfortunately, he strained his groin in his run-out just prior to his race! Shit! “Now we know why you don’t race coming right out of the GPP” was ESTI’s deadpan response when I told him the result. I told the athlete that it was my fault for pushing into racing too quickly. Hopefully he isn’t too discouraged mentally, because we still have a lot of work to do.
What is my best move here? I am mindful of Charlie’s words of playing to an athlete’s strengths- this guy really benefits from speed but has always been hurt from it.
Should I move into a carefully managed KK style transition phase, waiting until early June to intensify the speed through some 200m races and appropriate Charlie style short to long 400 sessions? I have to be careful with speed, as though he responds very well to speed work from an improvement standpoint, he has consistently hurt himself in the past. Usually he runs a fast 150 or 200 in practice and ends up with stress fractures in his shins, or foot issues. I suspect a lot of this stemmed from running the turn indoors, which is suicidal at 6’5 with some decent 150 speed (he’s run consistently in the mid-high 15’s in practice in the past).
Fitness is also a major concern, so I consulted with ESTI and we thought that keeping the 5x200 in once a week would be wise instead of going with 2x2x200 at this point.
I was thinking of following the transition plan for 4 weeks with some 200m races to help his speed starting in late May, transitioning into some 400m Short to Long type workouts in early June, and trying to run some decent races in mid-June. I have to confirm what date he needs to hit a qualifying time by. Also, we may need to find some good conditions elsewhere so he can have a chance at a decent time.
KitKat, do you have any advice? Would anyone else care to weigh in?
T-Slow,
how old is he?
How long ago were his PB’s?
It appears he has some significant time away from training till he started GPP, how long and what did he do?
Hi John,
He just turned 23. He sort-of trained for indoors and ran the 6.95 and 35 flat this year. His 21.62 was from two years ago, and he ran 21.68 last summer off of virtually zero base, and workouts that mainly consisted of 3x30, 3x60, 2x200. Of course, he ended up hurt again and the 21.68 was his only open race. He allegedly split 47.2 in a 4x400 relay the same day but I didn’t see it, don’t trust his former coach’s hand times, and it isn’t a FAT time so I don’t count it.
He ran some indoor races in January and then didn’t train much due to a recurring foot problem (either a high ankle sprain or a stress fracture). We have seen Dr. Galea about it and are awaiting an MRI.
On Angela’s advice I kept him off turns, and we stayed off the track 95% of the time during the GPP, only venturing on for limited reps to allow a gentle transition for his time trial on the track.
It seems you should be looking for consistency before anything else. The GPP period was a good first step. Of course, there are certain dates, but you can’t push things beyond his current limits. And of course, when there are many things to work on within a limited time frame, some of them will remain ‘unsolved’ until next season. Be patient and first look for a healthy body (I know you do, just saying…). All the best!
So to update the above info about my guy mentioned above…after our failed 200m experiment down south, I have kept him out of 200m races for the time being. His hip flexor strain healed fairly quickly, and we got back to work after about a week of bike workouts, some lifting, and EMS.
I took him through the KitKat transition phase, but he raced a couple of 400’s during that time. The first one was in Windsor, a meet I couldn’t make it to. He went pretty nuts, with reliable splitters getting him at 200m in 21.8, and hitting 300 in 33.8 (a new hand-timed PB) before blowing up in the last 100 and finishing in 48.63- still a 400m PB. He learned the hard way that taking it out at 21.8 when your 200m speed is around 21.5 is NOT wise!
A couple of weeks later, he raced another 400m and came through 200m in a sluggish 23.0, but he finished strong and ran 48.09 for another PB. I’ve tried to keep some work in there, so the week of the first race we did 2x2x200, while the week of the last race we did a single set of 2x200 with the first rep tempo in 23.00, with the backup rep in 22.9 off two minutes rest.
We are just completing our last week of transition right now, and he’s racing on Saturday again. Last Friday, we did 3xEFE 40-20-20, and his technique is much improved. We also did 6x15m starts to get him to extend his lead arm. He comes out like a 5’5 guy fighting for frequency, when all he needs to do is extend and use his 6’5 size and strength. I wanted to do a few 30’s and 60’s, but he was getting tired so we opted for a single standing start 150 instead. It was a nice day with a pleasant tailwind, so I knew he had a good chance at a confidence boosting time. He ran 15.72 from a standing start, his best 150 of the season, and it was a huge psychological boost for him to be back in the 15’s.
Monday he ran with another guy near his level, and they went 350, 200, 150. The 350 was under control in 41 seconds, and the 200 was pretty fast, 21.35 including reaction time off an “on your mark, set, go” command. The final 150 I asked him to run smoothly at 95%, keeping in mind his big SB in the 150 on Friday. I’ve noticed in the past that his previous coach would get him to run fantastic times in the 150 for two or three weeks in a row (off of no base, incidentally), and bam, like clockwork he’s hurt the third week. Once you get a great result, it’s probably wise to let him recover a bit before letting him run fast again.
This week, I’m leaving the 200+200 out during race week, and we substituted bike tempo yesterday instead, and focused on some deep massage to get him loose. The Olympic trials qualifying standard is 48.30, and he has already run under that. If we can get a good result this weekend, then we will probably go to the trials in Calgary at the end of the month.
I am cautiously optimistic. I think he has the potential to run a little bit faster this weekend. Everything has been going well, and he learned not to go out too hard from his first race, and not to go out too easy in his second. Let’s hope the third race will lead to a further improvement in pace judgement, and a slightly faster time (which will improve his seeding at the trials). Clearly going forward, race modelling is going to be a critical focus in all training sessions.
My biggest worry is losing overall fitness. We’ve been racing during transition, and only got through a single 6 week GPP block. After this weekend, if we end up tapering for trials, does anyone have any ideas on how to modify the taper a bit?
Question
I had my athlete run a 300m hill at an incline of 6.67% (I think that is around 11.6 degrees but brain isn’t working) in 49.6 as a time trial
I am figuring that is about a 52-53m 400m time. Would that seem about right?
Edit-had a chance to look at the math, so hoping that is 3.8 degrees. I think my rise is wrong.
I think it would be easier to have them run a 300 time trial on the track to get a more accurate picture of where they’re at for 400. It’s pretty hard to calculate all the variables of different hill slopes, etc. to figure out an approximate 400 time.
Thanks T-Slow
I think my calculation of the hills it wrong (it has to be at least 10 degrees)
He has done the 300m, altough it was after a 60 and 150 as well.
How did your athlete finish his season?
Hey Ted,
Thanks for asking. He made the final at our nationals in the 400! Unfortunately, he got a cramp in the final and DNF’d. I don’t want to hijack this thread, so I’ll update with lots of specifics in the Training Journal section this week and explain all the details about nationals, as well as how the summer season went. Basically, off of 12 weeks prep, he ran four consecutive PB’s in the 400 and shaved 1.5 seconds off his 400m PB to make the national finals. He then went out a couple of weeks later and finished fourth in the provincials in the 200 in his first 200m races of the season (PB in the semi, PB in the final). Two weeks later, he ran 21.21 in sub-optimal conditions, 0.41 seconds faster than his previous PB from two seasons ago. Overall, it was an amazingly successful season, and all credit goes to KitKat, Charlie, Angela, Waldemar and ESTI. I can’t tell you how much the information I’ve learned here over the years helped- it was like I was prepared for almost any situation even though it was my first time at a major meet. I think some people will get a real kick out of some of the details, as some of them are surreal! I’ll get cracking.
good work 
Not sure if you measure slope, gradient etc., but this link goes to a table that allows you to convert easily from one to another.
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/slope-degrees-gradient-grade-d_1562.html
Thanks star61.
Athlete did a session today on hill I mentioned above (that has to be between 10-15 degrees)
2 sets x 300, 200 (that is a 300 then a 200) with jog down recovery. Long recovery sets
I didn’t time the first set, but spent the 10 minutes of the recovery trying not to be sick. Recovery was around 30 minutes
Set 2 was
300 around 50 sec
200 around 45 sec
We finished the session with sub max depletion push ups (sub max was 90% of max on first set, then 50% reduction)
I like using timed runs instead of a distance myself. Not saying any is wrong or not, but I like the idea of a timed effort for the overall race time goal. If you aim to run 50 seconds, do a 50 sec hill run. The idea of a hard 50 sec effort gets instilled early in training plan. My HS girls do 60 seconds, as they run 63-65 range. My boys do 50 as they were 51-52 range. I found nice progress throughout the GPP on hills. We had land marks to gauge progress each session we did it.