the catching phase is one of the most important parts. an intense plyometric stretch reflex occurs at that point and no other. what is funny is seeing people doing so call power cleans that look like a mix between a deadlift and a reverse barbell bicep curl. with outthe intense plyometric phase that occurs when it is done properly you wont get the same benifit as those olympic lifters who they tested to have better verticals and 10 m times than elite high jumpers and sprinters respectivly.
Blinky I think I remember jay saying that there is a more complete contraction when catching falling loads ( in the video), I am not sure if that is why he feels the catch phase is the best part of the olympic lifts for gains but it may have some insight to his train of thought…in his video when the dudes are dropping and catching dumbell, doing shoulder raises he says to note how all the shoulder muscles turn on when catching the dumbell…???
i have the magazines dec 94 and jan 95 i didnt get it from the internet.
when cathcing a falling load especially in a stretched position sensory nerves in the muscle tell detect the high velocity stretch and then relay that to the cns. the cns then send out instructions to contract the muscle very powerfully to prevent muscle damage as a result of over stretch. it is a natural human reaction. siff talks about it in supertraining. it is also a way to activate the maximal number of motor units in a muscle or muscle group.
james later posts below you how this will re mention how this will give greater plyometric benefits i believe…what position would it be more benficial to catch the wieght in “using this theory?”
catching in a “power” position at quater squat height
or the full position at the bottom like pros do?
i always thought that the acceleration needs to be quicker for the “power” variations so it would give better benefits?
thoughts?
I am not the athlete who says he can bench 530lbs, Archuleta is the one who states that! I only questioned his bench bc I do not know whether or not he used a bench shirt to do that! You yourself and James Smith both stated that lifters can add 50-100lbs on their lift if they use the equipment properly! So what makes you think that Adam has/hasn’t used this equipment? I merely was making a comment that if Adam did use the equipment properly that he could add 50-100lbs on his bench and therefore his bench press wasn’t that impressive! I never stated that he did use the equipment! Shaf by your own submission you state this is possible and so why you decide to attack me on this subject shows your immaturity!
Your right I haven’t used this equipment but I do know lifters can add big amounts to their bench press if they do use this equipment properly and in that regards I am right and you are nothing but a jealous asshole. If you want to badmouth me or make fun of me then just do so without trying to nitpick something out of my posts and then using a straw-man method to attack me on those posts!
BTW, A Straw-man method is where, you simplify or falsify your opponents stance or opinion, then attack that “strawman” version of the stance or opinion rather than the real one.
Below is my original quote that Shaf decided to do respond by using the straw-man method.
Now my only assumption that with a bench press suit I could bench 500lbs was if I trained the way James Smith and other powerlifters did! I never once stated that by simply throwing on a bench press suit for the first time would yield me gains of 50-100lbs on my raw bench!
Shaf, You seem like a guy with a lot of fire and passion just like some other members whom have disagreed with my posts in the past! I love it when guys like you have a smart intellegent rebuttal bc it makes me and others on the forum think about the subject at hand; however, its only when you decide to personally attack somebody or nitpick at there posts that makes me wonder why people waste their time on such immature things!
Seriously Shaf don’t you have something better to do than to waste your time nitpicking at my posts?
SVS I have lifted with a dude who could barely hit 390lb raw but saw him hit 495 with a shit a couple weeks ago…he is very experienced and a very good powerlifter but I just want to say that I do know at least one dude who has learned to master equiptment…also I have heard of the 165lb bencher named Joe Mazza who benches over 600lbs!!! Not that he isn’t strong but people have said he is a master of the bench shirt!!!
James, I feel that it is important to observe the gradation in importance as to what degree of knee flexion the lifter is at when receiving the barbell.
The catch phase in the powerclean is not nearly as beneficial as the catch in the squat clean. Both for reasons of lesser load and lesser stretch to the active musculature and connective tissues.
It is my view that the higher one plans to catch the barbell they might as well just perform a high pull, as at this point the catch phase serves more to qualify the lift rather than yield any marked benefits.
Additionally, and I believe Charlie will agree, a step or two out of the blocks I can see, however, I won’t believe it till I see a world class weightlifter beat a world class sprinter to the 10m mark.
James Colbert wrote “but in jays plusa articles he writes about supermaximal lifts with weights up to 130% of a persons max used to strees the eccentric portion of the lift. the bar is then lifted at the end of the set in such away that the athlete must still remain maximal tension and the bar follow the same path that it naturally would. this takes a good spotter who is familiar with the lifters bar path. he does similar things for squat and deadlift allbeit a little more complex in their execution”
Would Weight Releasers come in handy here and do the same thing if you could load the bar and weight to 130% of you max and when it deloads, have like90-95 % on the bar?
Also how would one properly implement Weight releasers into a program…Since max eccentircs are overly stressfull on the system I would assume that you should not implement them into your daily training program…just curious how to properly insert them into a program to get the best results…thanks
[QUOTE=James Smith]James, I feel that it is important to observe the gradation in importance as to what degree of knee flexion the lifter is at when receiving the barbell.
The catch phase in the powerclean is not nearly as beneficial as the catch in the squat clean. Both for reasons of lesser load and lesser stretch to the active musculature and connective tissues.
It is my view that the higher one plans to catch the barbell they might as well just perform a high pull, as at this point the catch phase serves more to qualify the lift rather than yield any marked benefits.
Additionally, and I believe Charlie will agree, a step or two out of the blocks I can see, however, I won’t believe it till I see a world class weightlifter beat a world class sprinter to the 10m mark.they did a study one olympic games i elieve it was in the 80’s and found this to be true. olympic lifter are raw explosivness. u can believe it or not the info is out there all you have to do is look.
its not quite the same thing with the weight releasers because on the concentric portion of the lift the goal is to produce a high velocity high tension contration. so the bar is lifted briskly off of the lifter by the spotter following the lifters natural bar path. during this “lift off” the lifter still tries to apply maximal force against the bar there by creating a large deal of muscle tension and a higher than normal velocity. maximal motor unit recruitment anyone?
It would be helpful if Jay would write a book. His choice, but a lot of people would like to understand his training and apply it. We can’t really judge what he does without knowing his program. What little we know is tantalizing and sometimes confusing.
mike I agree! I think part of the interest we all have is cause he keeps it so damn secrative , not his exercises used but the way he uses them and in what order ! 
Jay keeps to himself for his own reasons. He has helped me train my own athletes. The man has helped my daughter, when she was having knee problems.
I know that alot of his methods are from Bondarchuk. Maybe we kneed to get contact with Bondarchuk and discuss his methods of training. This might lead to us to understand Jay’s methods.
its not quite the same thing with the weight releasers because on the concentric portion of the lift the goal is to produce a high velocity high tension contration. so the bar is lifted briskly off of the lifter by the spotter following the lifters natural bar path. during this “lift off” the lifter still tries to apply maximal force against the bar there by creating a large deal of muscle tension and a higher than normal velocity. maximal motor unit recruitment anyone?
If you wanted to verify the lifter is actually applying maximum force to the bar and creating a “voluntary” high velocity contraction with maximal motor unit recruitment weight releasers would be a valid way of doing that. See info and research on static-dynamic method.
I’m sure Jay has his reasons. Many of us here hesitate to write programs for people without knowing more on their background because people hurt themselves trying advanced methods with novice skills. It’s easier to keep things private than to just free people up to make their own decisions on how far they’ll push themselves, or worse, their kids. Did anyone else see the piece on “The World’s Strongest Boy”? Those parents are sick.
i believe that the velocity attained with the spotter is greater than that which could be atained with weight releasers. the speed attained with the given muscle tension is greater than what can be accomplished without a properly trained spotter.
If what I read was correct, Schroeder worked with Suggs between his first and second season in the NFL.
James,
Catching the clean in a high catch can build eccentric strength and amoritization strength very similar to the joint angles and possible the forces found in jumping , sprinting and throwing.
Frit, I agree that the joint angles are similar, however, (personal opinion) I would opt to utilize different/simpler/more effective means of developing eccentric strength and ‘specific’ reactive ability at these joint angles.
For example: A reactive front or back 1/4 squat allows for greater loads to be lifted than what one is capable of powercleaning, especially for younger athletes. I favor the part whole approach.
It is my view that Olympic lifters, or other athletes who are proficient at the lifts, are more likely to perform powercleans in an effort to develop abilities a little farther to the left on the curve than squat cleans (as opposed to attempting to develop reactive ability at reduced joint angles).
Other than utilizing the lift for the specific adaptations yielded by it, I would be curious to know how many coaches who test athletes in the powerclean are actually capable of defining the resultant adaptations.