Is over distance necessary for the 400m?

Am I right in thinking that special endurance pace much above 400m would move more into the aerobic zone than necessary and tempo would provide sufficient aerobic function.

(Lactic tolerance can obviously be trained from fast reps of 100,200,300 for example.)

Depends, some programmes have it and others don’t. Even CF’s templates differ, S-L doesn’t but has split runs such as 300+200 with 60 sec rec while his L-S starts at 600m and works down.

The concept of “over-time” runs may also be worth investigating.

Much depends on how such elements blend into your overall programme, which all starts with your philosophy of coaching that event (400m) from which is generated the performance needs and the best means with which to meet those needs.

reps below 400 can replace any lactic training benefit from over distance and I really wonder if tempo can replace the aerobic benefits from hard out over distance. There may be a mental benefit from over distance though.

How do most train, overdistance or not? I am not classing overdistance as 400-600m tempo only special endurance pace.

I trained long to short with lots of over-distance in JUCO and short to long with no overdistance (in fact not much longer than 80m) at my next school and there was no contest, I benefited much more from short to long. That said as a coach I’ll be trying out Charlie’s long to short program this year with athletes if injury/availability are a concern.

None of my 400m lads run longer than 300m in any single rep - and then that I more for time trial purposes.

We start off with shorter (60’s, 80’s, 50/20/50’s) straight line runs and eke the distance out later through the pre-comp (and comp) phase.

I’m of the belief that the faster one can run 100m or 200m the faster one will run the 400m. ie: Bring the 100m PB down and there should be a coresponding improvement in the 400m. So it is primarily a speed based program.

Hence we don’t do any over-distance running (beyond 400m).

This echos exactly what I feel. My running career reflects that this philosophy was 100% right for me as a runner.

That said, what I like about Charlie’s L to S program is the two high intensity days/week early in the year seem to help out athletes I have who are constantly getting hurt.

Youngy, does your squad do any low intensity tempo running?

Where is Charlies 400m program shown ?

I believe Vancouver '04 video outlines the L-S programming.

Yes but only after we are through the specific prep phase.

We build up the intensity each week over a 5 week period reaching 95-100%.

Once they’ve developed a strong fitness base and race hardness, we then have ‘tempo’ sessios for technique purposes. (eg: 2 x 6 x flying 50’s)

We have just concluded the 3rd week. It consisted of 12 x 60’s in two sets of 6. Roughly between 80 to 85% pace.

This week is back to 50/20/50’s. Tuesday & Thursday will be 12 ( 2x 6). Pace should be about 80% to 90%, as progress thropugh the week.

We revert back to 12 x 60’s next week (wk 5 beginning Sept 22) where some will be 100%; most in the 90-95% range. Blocks will be introduced during the lattter half of this week.

Then there’s another week of 50/20/50’s (off blocks, week commence 29 Sept).

Then it’s one more fortnight of alternating 60’s with 50/20/50’s. That’s the end of the specific prep phase; before we start to push the distance out (ie: 2 x 2x 200m).

Pre-Comp gets more into the trials and race specfic stuff.

A few weeks down the track the occasional ‘tempo big circuit’ will be introduced.

At this stage it’s important to not get too far ahead of ourselves and monitor the athlete from day to day & week to week. Nothing is set in concrete. There’s a basic template that is flexible depending on the circumstances.

To give you an idea of the timeline we are working towards - Our first race weekend is October 18/19. 60m & 200m on the Saturday on synthetic and 100m (under handicap conditions) on grass on the Sunday.

First 400m on a synthetic track with Fully Automated Timing will be November 1st.

There is a L-S slide (and discussed in the Vanc04 download), but that is for 100/200 training I believe–even though it starts at 300 and 600 reps, which some of the 400 folks here might want to keep in mind.

There are 400m ones (both L-S & S-L) available. I got them at a seminar last year. I think they may be with the Edmonton downloads.

I would try and get the Aust seminar slides.

They are not in the Vancouver or Edmonton downloads…maybe another seminar?

I got them in Australia.

Far be it from me to put words in Mr. Francis’ mouth, but I believe that he would say that the L-to-S program is universal to competition distances from 60m-400m.

See what Charlie did say in the Vancouver download. He presented two different plans for pure spriters. The 400 specific plan is different as noted by others above, just like the s-l for pure sprinters in the Vancouver download doesn’t have any 300+200 split runs used for the 400 s-l plan.

Is there a way to get them if you were unable to attend the seminar?

I suggest you contact Rupert.