It seems as if the number of camps using overspeed has decreased over the years though some, obviously, still do.
I was told by one of my former athletes who trained with Seagrave in the early part of this decade that he quit using pulleys(including his own pacer) around 2001/2002.
Thanks for all the great information! Are these 2X30m flying sprints? I assume they must be considering your statement that you ran one of them in 2.41. BTW: How was this timed and what type of surface and slope were you running on? Also, how much faster is this than what you can run on an even surface.
So this method seems to be high risk for top guys. But what about people with a lower top-speed… the recovery should be quicker afterwards… even some elite level jumpers would fall into this speed catagory.
Well, the timing situation is that US Nationals are two weeks from this coming weekend, and we have races every week through that period. I wasn’t planning on going (not close enough to winning if you’re around 10.2 to make it worth the cost) but I’m rethinking that now, and obviously, I’d love to schedule the peak for the 20-27 of this month if possible.
I was thinking about having a race-like training session (3X50+100 all with long rest) midweek, then a real 100m race next weekend (and not racing 200 in any of these meets), followed by the major taper for supercompensation–trying to make it similar to what you did with Ben with races every 3 days for the overload, then supercompensation into WC off that.
From what you’re saying, if I do this again at the end of SPP2 next year (and I will, unless the performances fall off or I get injured in the next couple of weeks), I’ll need to schedule this a bit earlier in SPP, which means a shorter SPP going into it, in order to have the 3 weeks of training coming out.
What I see from John Smith isn’t anything like this. HSI has a two week cut down to comp which is basically an exponential taper. It goes from 4 workouts (and 4 weights before track) in the last week of SPP, to 2 workouts and 2 weight sessions in the first week of the taper, then 1 workout and one start session in the second week of the taper. After this everything is submax not over 80m and starts, with only the race on the weekend being high intensity. What you’re seeing right now from Carmelita Jeter is coming out of this kind of thing: She did a lot of work on starts during indoors, then a lot of overdistance after indoors with 400 meter races the first 2 weeks of April–and the fastest time in the world for 100m at Mt. Sac. Now, Carmelita has beaten the Jamaicans and run ~10.85w…twice.
The USATF training chart gives a training time of 2.69 for a 10.2 competition time. So, 2.41 is definitely pushing the envelope of what might be considered “safe” unless you’re running fast enough to line up next to Bolt (I wish).
I’m not that much of an overspeed fan and won’t go anywhere near a towing apparatus. I did these two workouts in distance racing flats (~5 0z) on a slightly sloping but perfect surface in the parking lot of the local high school, which also has a rekortan track for the warmup and final sprint on the flat. You should do this on grass, but I don’t have one available without the surface imperfections that could easily sprain an ankle running at these paces.
I maybe using the contrast method earlier than expected; in the next few days. Strong headwinds are forecast for Saturday’s competition and I’m not sure it’s of much value for me to running into another headwind like last wkend when what I really need is stimulus… because I’ve missed so much prep.
I’ve got a competition in 12 days time… I’m sure I won’t have a 10 day down time as I’m only a 6.94 60m guy… but I’m not sure whether to keep it 10 days out but include another HI before the competition, or move it nearer and do nothing like lkh before the comp.
I took 10 days to be VERY sure of not getting injured. If you look at the link tamfb posted about, LSU is using 4 days not completely off but 4 days between HI. I will probably do that next year.
But a main difference between drob and me is I listen to Charlie. So, when he says my next race is going to be my peak, I’ve decided to plan accordingly, and instead of a real workout, I’m doing 4X30+80 @95% from the 10 day taper. I’ve run pretty consistently and never really had a major blowout time, which is of course important to race in Europe or sign a contract. So this time, I’m going for that big blowout time, and Charlie, if you have anything else to say, I’m all ears.
Only that I’ve got my fingers crosssed for good conditions for you!
Hmmm, my best opportunity for contrast training (facilities) is tomorrow… 10 days out. I could use a HI day at 7days out (95%?), which would be slightly depleted (like you discussed in the Usain double workout thread) leading to supercompensation on comp day…
Thurs - 3x30m resisted, 3x30m overspeed, 1x80 flat.
Friday - rest
Sat - rest
Sun - 2x(3x60) 95% or 150/180/150 95%
Monday - rest
Tues - 1000m tempo
Wed - rest
Thurs - 4x20m blocks, bench
Frid - rest
Sat - warm up
Sun- race
Keep us posted on your progress! Fantastic insight!
If you gonna take lkh advice about the needed rest for overspeed then I wouldn’t do contrast training 10 days before your biggest meet. Also Sunday workout look like its too much, I would probably do 3x30, 1x150 95%.
It’s not my biggest meet… i just need some very high stimulus because I’ve missed pretty much all my speed development this year. And from what I gather I thought lkh was using it 10 days out as supercompenation and PR’s occur.
Did my contrast session today… didn’t realise what a OS playground i have at my track! Carefully manicured football pitches next to the track, slightly sloped from goal to goal and side to side… so running diagonally you can change the gradient just by adjusting the angle run at.
3x40m up hill 6mins rec.
3x30m OS 10mins
20mins
100m track
The first flying 30 was slow… 2.9 body adjusting? But the last 2 were fast… probably too fast - rough times of 2.56 and 2.60, but I felt in control always. The 100m didn’t feel too good… but that may be coming off the grass straight onto the track. There was a slight ache in the hams 10mins following the OS.
I’ll monitor the next few days and probably take tamfb advice and do 1x150 95% 0r 2 at 85-90%
I’ve been following this thread for the last few days. Awesome stuff. Just to add to the mix, you can also try an isorobic as charlie has it in CTFS. You will feel a slight over speed after a few reps with the device. I’ve tried it and it does make you feel much faster…
A few questions for LKH,
Are going going to incorporate this into the entire comp phase?
It would be really interesting for you to get access to an Omega Wave System and really monitor your CNS and other body systems while you are doing this.
Are you considering using this contrast training for the SPP next year? If so how?
The LSU approach seems to be just this one extreme workout, and then everything else is intensive tempo or starts. I don’t see how you could do the contrast training plus a race on the weekend for SE–your CNS and your hamstrings would never get a chance to recover. During comp, you normally have just the race at HI and everything else is submax, and that’s what I plan to do for comp. If you race every other weekend, you could probably fit the contrast training in there and recover, but the stimulus is so strong that I doubt going beyond 2-3 contrast workouts in a season is worth the added injury risk.
It would be really interesting for you to get access to an Omega Wave System and really monitor your CNS and other body systems while you are doing this.
Don’t have any such thing available
Are you considering using this contrast training for the SPP next year? If so how?
I didn’t know how to do this safely until tamfb posted the LSU schedule and I didn’t get it into my SPP soon enough to take advantage of what Charlie said about going back to training for 3 or 4 weeks, then try to peak. So first of all, right now I’m going to do some racing (just the race being HI, with 3X30+80 submax midweek) to find out if you get continued gains from training after the contrast training, or whether the contrast workout directly sets the peak (or does it matter?).
For next year, contrast training is one of two things I learned here. The other is John Smith and those 400 races. And I see what Carmelita Jeter got form John Smith’s experiment (more of a short-long emphasis with more starts in phase 1, more overdistance following indoors, ending with 2 400 races in the first 2 weeks of April and THEN the fastest time in the world for 100m at Mt Sac the very next weekend), Tyson Gay doing the same thing (his second 400 in 45-point) then the 3rd fastest 200 ever run as a “test of fitness” (God forbid if he actually did any speedwork!), and also Leroy Dixon running 10.00w last weekend on a non-Mondo track.
With what I’ve learned, this is what I’m thinking about doing:
First, my SPP1 is similar to Charlie’s except I have 2X200 SE (not tempo) in place of one of the 3X4X60 sessions, and I continue the SE a bit longer (concurrent training). Im going to do this one workout as 2X50(uphill) + 2X30 blocks + 2X200 (long rest) to try to get the effect PJ got with 200s after light sleds. The rest of the SPP1 is like Charlie has outlined, ending with 3X60s.
For SPP2:
Starting SPP2 (ignoring, weights, tempo, starts)
Mon 4X60
Tue 300-200-100
Fri 2X3X80
Ending (2 weeks in a row for first 2 weeks in April)
Tue 4X50 + 100
Thu weights
Sat 400 race
Following 100m at Mt Sac (i.e., Carmelita’s schedule), the cutdown to comp
Wed 2X50 slight uphill + 2X30 overspeed + 100m flat
Sun 3X100 + 2X50
Thu 2X50 slight uphill + 2X30 overspeed + 100m flat
COMP
Tue: 3X30 + 80 all submax
Sat 100m or 100+200 race
So why the 400s though? Anyone know the thinking behind it? Just theory or some science? Obviously it seems to work.
Note on Tyson Gay : During ress conference after the 19.58, he said that he hadn’t start speed work, I.E.fast 30s or 60s (he said he still did a few of these), but his coach mentioned that he ran the 120s at training faster than ever and he said that it’s actually speed work.
I’d better tell you how I got on today after using contast training 10 days out. This is how the last two weeks have looked.
Sun - Comp: 11.33… Bad meet, wet track, headwind.
Mon - Rest
Tues - Tempo 1600
Wed - Rest
Thurs - 3x40 uphill, 30x30m os, 1x100 flat.
Fri - Rest
Sat - Rest
Sun - Tempo 1200
Monday - (back home with coach) Short approach box jumps, 4x20m, 3x15hypes, 5,5,3,failure A2G squats.
Tues - Rest (big DOMS)
Wed - Tempo 1200 (DOMS)
Thurs - 2x10, 2x30, 2x40 blocks, 2x5xWeighted dips (no bench available)
Fri - Rest
Sat - Warm-up
Sun - Comp, 10.96 semi. 10.78 final.
0.55s drop…
Now I have a dilemma… should I compete on Wednesday or not??
It was cold today but Wednesday is meant to be real warm…
where you gonna compete on wed ? was that a PB its a big jump from previous run