How many people actually lift and train athletes?

I just started reading the board a few days ago and and it seems like there is a ton of smart people here. One thing I notice is a lot of post turn into a bunch science jargon and slam coach after coach because of their training ideas. Then Charlie Francis shows up and gives a KISS answer(Keep It Simple Stupid) and everyone shuts up and trys to make it sound like thats what they were talking about.

I was wondering what kind of people are posting? Are you grad students and university professors with no real world experience? I always see grad students from the local college talk like they are the smartest person ever and create the most over complicated workouts to look smart. They themselves couldn’t squat their body weight but they act like they have this under the bar attitude. Are a lot of you like this? I’m just wondering if this is the case. Charlie Francis seems to keep his post simple while others try to make it sound like they are a genius that knows everything about training.

I like your post and think you have a good point but do you actually expect anyone to say ‘yes’ to that? :slight_smile:

Charlie’s simple cut through the BS answers enlighten all of us.

There are a tonn of experienced coaches on this forum besides Charlie, many of whom have coached olympians and many others who coach professional athletes. Kitkat, NumberTwo, Clemson to name just a few.

What exactly are your credentials that you are able to recognize the wheat from the chaff?

You’re making a generalization that makes you sound as narrow-minded as those who post criticisms of other coaches. It’s about contributing to the board, not about criticizing the boards.

The best way to improve the forum is to use it correctly. Let’s not make this look like the board with coaches who are figuring everything out as they read something new.

There’s negatives about every message board, so just try and keep things positive and make a contribution.

As Herb points out there are a lot of world class coaches on this board but most people don’t know who is who :D.

Which is interesting because it kind of tips the scales a little as generally you tend to be persuaded by people based on the following criteria set out by Aristotle a few(!) years ago:

  1. Ethos (credability of the speaker)
  2. Logos (the words they say)
  3. Pathos (the emotions of the audience)

So when you don’t know who a person is you judge the things they say based on simply the Logos (thier post) and Pathos (in this case your previous experience).

Note here that Charlie Francis is about the only person on this board that uses their real name (how do you think this affects your judgement?).

Then Charlie Francis shows up and gives a KISS answer(Keep It Simple Stupid) and everyone shuts up and trys to make it sound like thats what they were talking about.

Yep, you’re right! This ammuses me also.

Note that both you and they assume Charlie is always right. Which is interesting because when I discuss things CF says away from this board everyone assumes he must be wrong once they find out who he is (Ethos at work).

And why does he have this power (to end a thread)? Because he has 20+ years of coaching experience with a wide variety of athletes and has seen it all. He knows what he believes and doesn’t care too much about the science because he knows that most of the real world problems are too complex for science to solve on its own (anyone else worked this out yet?).

As for KISS, there are probably a few reasons for this. Other than your conjecture, if i guess right he isn’t the fastest typer in the world and has better things to do than spend hours writing long messages like this one.

Futhermore, most people just want some feedback from him because they don’t want to have to spend 20 years coaching to formulate thier own oppinions. It is much easier to get the general direction from him and go from there. Also, if he told you everything in detail why would you buy any of his products? Note: all of his products are great.

OK, after that little rant, I’m off back to the squat rack to read a few journal articles with 175K on my back and advise others on how to do the same. :stuck_out_tongue:

P.S. did you believe the first bit just cos i said Aristotle originated the idea?

What I was expecting was people to come and post some actual coaching experience. If you do not have experience coaching then it seems like you don’t always know what works and what doesn’t work in the real world. My professors in college talked a great game but when it came down to it they coudn’t tell me how to get stronger or faster. They could define terms, site studies, show me some graphs and periodization models but that was about it. I like this board and I hope no one is too offended my first post.

BTW I’m here to learn so I do not know everything about everything.

A little about me:
26 years old 242lbs powerlifter:
800lbs squat and still going up
600lbs bench press and still going up
650lbs deadlift and hopefully I’ll move it will move up but very slowly

BS in exercise science, BSED in physical education/health

Strength Coach at a HIGH school and I’m always looking for different ways to do things.
Full scholarship for 4 years playing college football

I DO NOT know everything and I am here to learn.
What got me interested in the speed and technique part of running is because in college I ran a 4.8 40 yard and I thought I oculd never get faster. I used some some treadmill training and it slowed me down to a 5.0 flat 40 yard time. I did another program with a coach a year later and he got me down to a 4.65.

ACCarl, your initial post is well founded and as Herb and tc0710 stated, there are a core group of very knowledgeable and highly experienced coaches who contribute here. As time goes on you will be able to gauge the goods.

The interesting coaching paradigm is that you can be a competent coach (depending on what discipline of course), yet you may or may not be highly accomplished, or have accomplished a high level of achievement in the very discipline which you coach.

I believe you make your point clear, and I agree, that as a strength coach (in particular) you better have some to coach some

Having said that, most will find that as you accel in one regime (be is sport or knowledge) you gain the insights along the way which facilitate your understanding of other regimes.

I am a lifter and a coach

And yet you feel really comfortable in the critic’s role.

James Smith also posts under his real name. I guess you could consider that Kelly B posts under his real name. There are others.

I see where this post is coming from. The intern is a strange beast. I try to read this site and many others everyday (if I can). I have found myself trying to figure out who I listen to more or less on this site and others. I was lucky having the oppurtunity to intern with one of thes best ever (buddy Morris). Since my time I Pitt I have learned alot. My advice is listen to most people on this site. James, David, Charlie and many others are smarter then I so I listen more then post. About me??
Compete in 181/165 depends
Squat 545
Bench 345
Dead 465 (This sux done much more in training)
Coach at George Mason Univ
BS Penn Statem, MS VCU
And always tryin to learn.

I think Speed hit it best here…you say you don’t know everything yet you came in critical of everyone. Be careful of calling people out without your own credientals. I do understand where you are coming from. But, the thing is…i’ve heard this a lot from some people (interestingly, most were powerlifters)…telling others to shut up the scientific jargon and lift some weight. Well, the scientific jargon is where you get your training methods from. Go ask Zatsiorsky how much he can squat and see what he says, yet the guy has already forgotten more than most of us will ever know.
Many of the best coaches i have met really were not highly accomplished athletes. This may be the fuel that drives them. I have also met other coaches who were so focused on their own training that their athletes suffered terribly. Finding that happy medium is a difficult thing to do because at the end of the day, when you take a step back and look at it, your job as a coach is take take your athletes as far as you can. Bottom line.
As for myself, i don’t get a whole hell of a lot of time to post on here. Wish i did, but there’s a lot to do in life. I’m, 27, just finished my master’s in sport biomechanics. Have been a strength coach at the collegiate level for four years now. Also have some experience working with high school athletes. In the past four years i’ve trained a few all-americans, all-region players, professional athletes from the NFL, NHL, and MLB, and have also had the opportunity to work with one or two olympic athletes.
As for my training, well, finishing this degree and coaching over 40 hours a week at the same time has put a big dent in it. Gotta choose your battles correctly and the degree was number one. But, i will always have time to train and now that i am done with school, i can finally read this stack of reserch articles that has been sitting on my floor the past few months.
This is a great board and you can learn from it trememdously. Ther are some really smart dudes on here who have more than proven they know what they are talking about. Do i give a crap how much weight they push? nah This is a forum designed aid coaches with their coaching and if used right, it will do just that.

This was a great post.

I love the science stuff and apply it to my own training. I’m not stranger to Zatiorsky and try to read as much information as I can. Asbury Park you have the best of both worlds. A college degree and real world coaching.

That was a great post. I consider myself fortunate enough that I grew up in a coaching environment at a young age and worked years before I ever bothered to pick up a bunch of books or sit in classrooms. Been coaching in one aspect or another since the age of 17 and now I’m 31.

One thing I’ve often observed is coaching is usually more about personality then anything else. Confidence, leadership, authority, ability to motivate, and how you represent yourself to a group are very important qualities. I think the argument is the personality of a coach is not conducive to becoming a book nerd and vice versa.

There was a topic like this a while back. Does a good coach have to train. I still say yes! I know not everyone agrees with me. I still feel that in order to coach you must first do. A coach does not have to be an elite athlete (that is why we coach) but they should train. I am FAR from an elite athlete. But, I train and train hard.
ROCK ON (that sayin cracks me up)

And the other, the French guy…
What’s his name again?

So true, knowledge is important but the key is being able to imaprt it in a manner appropriate to each athlete.

thamer, what happens when you get older? Change carreers? No one stays 25 y.o.
At 40 y.o. my max squat has gone from 745 in my early/mid twenties to 135 lb. Due to injuries, time restraints, family, work, etc…

Do you mean you should look physically fit or jacked up? I don’t know your age, but this is usually how younger coaches think. Don’t think you can demonstrate everything either or forever for that matter.

Don’t judge a book by its cover. Can’t stop the Father Time.

I agree with thamer. My opinion is that a coach should have went through the same experiences that his or her athletes are going through, so that the coach would be able to relate the scientific facts to his experiences, otherwise he would just have a bunch of scienctific facts about training and not know what to do with them.