numba56:
yes, but what about sprintings effects on RFD? would you not think itd be much greater due to the fact that it is the highest RFD activity possible? ie. Since Ive switched to a basics in the weightroom approach geared towards max strength and kept the speed work on the track my lifts get faster in speed(Bench, Squat, Power Clean).
As well, the further you get away from the start, the more dependance on vertical force, but it becomes much more of an elasticity issue, rather than a strength one, although strength could contribute.
What are your 1RM’s in all of the lifts you do?
i can only speak for my training weights going up, which are directly after an intense sprint workout. My 1RM last time I tested were B-275, S-475, D-435
Treble
July 26, 2004, 6:56pm
83
Supervenomsuperman:
LOL
From www.coachesinfo.com/article/240/
Since all of you were to lazy to do the research here it is!
Movement Pattern Specificity
Movement pattern specificity should not be underestimated as to its importance. The vertical jump can be used as an example. Studies have noted both kinetic and kinematic similarities between the vertical jump and pulling movements (Garhammer and Gregor 1992, Canavan et al. 1996. Thus the fundamental pattern of movement for a snatch or clean pull and a vertical jump with a two-leg take-off are quite similar. Basically the pulling movement is a jump with weights, which provides an overload. If movement pattern similarities are reasonable and a reasonable overload is afforded then it can be assumed that athletes consistently using pulling movements, as part of their training would have an excellent vertical jump. Evidence for this assumption can be found in both observation and research. For example, the vertical jumps of weightlifterÕs have been shown to be superior when compared to other athletes such as American football players and track and field athletes (Stone 1991).
Example 2 - Pulls vs Sprinting: Overload can also include rate of force development. In this example (Table 2) the rate of force development during sprinting is compared to those generated during a pulling snatch. Peak force and peak rates of force of force development are produced at similar knee angles for both activities. Although data are quite limited it appears that, the average peak rates of vertical force development, independent of impact forces, during upright sprinting are about 38000N x S-1 for elite sprinters. Equal or higher rates of force development can be generated during the second pull of a snatch of clean.
I strongly suggest you read the entire article on the mentioned website!
Why was it directed towards me :rolleyes:
h2earthquake:
I’ve heard that O lifter are faster than 100m sprinters for the first 25 meters.
So those people who never trained for sprinting are actually quite good at doing it.
So let’s say we take a already fast O lifter and make him learn the right technique. By how many seconds could he improve his 100m, considering he has an incredible potential due to his strength?
And after maibe 6 months of sprint training?
To Treble, this is what the original thread was.
However you replied to all the posts by saying,
And you then implied that elite OL would lose to somebody who had better form at any distance by saying,
Treble:
Well i’ll try to get us back on track. How important is technique? I say important as hell. I’ll use 2 of my guys for example. There’s one guy on my team who is the fastest on the team(guy A), then there’s another guy who has the fastest times on the team(100/200)(guy B) Guy A who is the fastest, had probably the worst form i’ve ever seen in my life when I first met him last year. It was literally hard for me to watch. But this winter I worked with him, and helped him get his form under control to where it’s more tolerable to look at. His times have improved, and he runs a lot more relaxed and under control, but he still has some things to correct.
Guy B has much better form naturally, and absorbs more of what I teach him. Reminds me a lot of Frank Fredericks. Now guy B is running faster than guy A, but he isn’t faster than the guy A. How is this possible you wonder. Well the reason is because guy A is putting a cap on his potential by having trouble with his form. He can go much faster than what he’s shown, but his form won’t let him see that potential just yet. Guy B is running much closer to to his potential because he has less restrictions to worry about. All he has to do is go out and try to run his fastest each race. While guy A is worrying about whether his form is good, he’s forgetting that he’s supposed to be running faster than the guy next to him.
So technique is very important. At least I think it is. A lot of the pro’s you see who are running fast with bad technique, could be the next Olympic champion or world record holder if they fixed whatever was wrong. Mo Greene, Michael Johnson, Allen Johnson, Ivan Pedroso, Johnathan Edwards, are all the best at what they did in my opinion. Those are the guys I use as examples when i’m talkin to my athletes. I never say go out and run like such and such, but you know what I mean. Those guys only had to worry about how fast or how far.
Doing something wrong was reserved for practice.
Treble
July 27, 2004, 12:45am
85
Supervenomsuperman, my response was to the title of the thread. By the time I posted, didn’t remember what he said in the original post. I was still responding to the title of how important is technique. I don’t know if you were agreeing with what I was saying or not, but either way I never implied that Elite OL would lose or win to someone with better form. I was comparing two sprinters. Maybe two different OL with one having better form, but not an OL, and a sprinter.
Treble:
Supervenomsuperman, my response was to the title of the thread. By the time I posted, didn’t remember what he said in the original post. I was still responding to the title of how important is technique. I don’t know if you were agreeing with what I was saying or not, but either way I never implied that Elite OL would lose or win to someone with better form. I was comparing two sprinters. Maybe two different OL with one having better form, but not an OL, and a sprinter.
Whatever :rolleyes: ,
O.K. We don’t have to worry about our feelings getting hurt over misinterpretations. Lets just move on shall we?
Flying
July 28, 2004, 8:49am
87
By the way SNS…
It’s fear in his eyes because he knows he is going to get his ass kicked, hint hint.
sowjet
August 1, 2004, 8:58am
89
martn76:
Super,
I get the feeling that alot of guys on this post have never met a REAL OL or seen them train, they are used to body builders. What ever you say my friend most of the guys on this post are non believers until they see with their own eyes. Sowjet is not worth convincing since he has been training with world class OL and sprinters and knows everything there is to know about speed and power. Thats why he is called sowjet.
In fact I was training in a gym with mainly OL and Boxers and know far more OL than sprinters.
About resaerch and articles - I could have posted one ton of stuff that back up the importance of Olympic lifts for sprinting or the connection between lifts and jumping ability.
I was only speaking out against statements like OL have a higher vert jump or faster 30m times than world class sprinters without giving facts. Even if that kind of rumors are spread in a wonderful article on the net or a magazine.
In old GDR books (on lifts and plyos) you always found the example of the Bulgarian 135kg bodyweight Weigthlifter capable of jumping to the height of his eyes from a standing position - but nowadays everybody knows it’s a legend. So beware! Legends even live in “scientific” stuff - even more in such rewritten by journalists.
To stop the misunderstanding let me clarify my position for the last time:
I know that some World Class lifters have 10-15 meter times equal to World class sprinters and never denyied that.
OL are very important in developing strenght for sprinting - starts AND even top speed.
But if you take a sprinter like Aliu - he is capable of jumping on a box about the height of his body. Which OL would beat him in jumping ability? How high does a guy jump who cleans or squats double the weight that Aliu does? 10 feet hight???
Vert leaps of 40 inches and more are quite common amongst world class sprinters and BB players for example. What would be the vert leaps of OL to beat them? More than 50 inches???
sowjet:
In fact I was training in a gym with mainly OL and Boxers and know far more OL than sprinters.
About resaerch and articles - I could have posted one ton of stuff that back up the importance of Olympic lifts for sprinting or the connection between lifts and jumping ability.
I was only speaking out against statements like OL have a higher vert jump or faster 30m times than world class sprinters without giving facts. Even if that kind of rumors are spread in a wonderful article on the net or a magazine.
In old GDR books (on lifts and plyos) you always found the example of the Bulgarian 135kg bodyweight Weigthlifter capable of jumping to the height of his eyes from a standing position - but nowadays everybody knows it’s a legend. So beware! Legends even live in “scientific” stuff - even more in such rewritten by journalists.
To stop the misunderstanding let me clarify my position for the last time:
I know that some World Class lifters have 10-15 meter times equal to World class sprinters and never denyied that.
OL are very important in developing strenght for sprinting - starts AND even top speed.
But if you take a sprinter like Aliu - he is capable of jumping on a box about the height of his body. Which OL would beat him in jumping ability? How high does a guy jump who cleans or squats double the weight that Aliu does? 10 feet hight???
Vert leaps of 40 inches and more are quite common amongst world class sprinters and BB players for example. What would be the vert leaps of OL to beat them? More than 50 inches???
How many proper OLs training or have trained to world class do you know? Stop assuming because I have known three national level British OLs and they were not that hot but had unbelieveable verticle jumps, they could do what ALiu does.
