Sounds like it’s time for him to transfer to an SEC school then.
Why didnt you ask what kind of training the coach was going to do before you decided to go to the school or at least join the team?
That would probably be the first question I would ask if I was truly serious about excelling at a sport.
It’s precisely because the vast majority of young kids don’t know what to ask that this type of coaching survives. (If he shovels it, they will come… but… if they stop coming, he can’t keep shovelling it).
Chib, you mentioned that you have brought up suggestions to the coach in regards to what might more optimally benefit the sprinter group- and you described the coach as being hard headed.
Have you attempted to get the coach to allow you only to perform a different training scheme?
Seeing as how you do perform as an individual I would think that the coach might allow you, alone, a certain degree of leeway in the training if you are able to effectively enough convince him that you will respond more optimally to different training- which will, thereby, only serve to benefit his program in terms of results.
yea, i did suggest to him to let me practice twice a day, doing speed work in morning before practice and he disagreed. word to word he said “Just worry about doing what I say and you’ll get faster.” I had to take the blocks he had in his office to correct my start by doing 1 step block starts in my room. I think I could open up outdoor with 10.9 - 11.1 if I do some speed endurance work over the 3 weeks prior to the meet. I was gonna focus on some acceleration but i figured in such short a time speed end would give the most improvement.
Charlie, do you think it is always best for an individual to give up on a coach if the coach does not have optimal training methods?
For example my concern in this situation is that the individual does not have enough self-knowledge to create a proper training plan. I believe it takes years to develop the proper knowledge to build competent training plans.
In my opinion, I do not question that this training is not optimal, I know it is not near there.
However, after choosing to go to this program and choose this coach only a few months ago, how does this individual now know how to go off on his own without a team?
A few sentences is nice to show dedication, but how do you know this individual will have enough dedication, knowledge, and proper training facilities to succeed.
Basically, how do you know even with less than proper training, that an individual who choose that training a few month ago can now go out on his own and succeed?
What, to me, is interesting here is that the reality of the situation, again to me, is that Chib represents a minority of athletes that are actually aware enough to know that his/her coach is unqualified.
Many here may know that I have, over the years, repeatedly elucidated my discontent with the fact that so many coaches, here in the US, are unqualified to do their work and this, repeatedly, yields debate amongst- none other than- coaches/trainers.
By the time the athlete becomes aware it’s often too late.
So here we have Chib who is in a situation of ‘not too late’ and who also possesses awareness.
Problem for you Chib is that if you decide to laterally transfer you will lose a year of eligibility.
If you transfer to a division under yours, however, you won’t miss a beat.
Further more, it would appear as if you stay you will not realize as a great a degree of your potential.
If track is that important for you I suggest that you transfer to a smaller school that satisfies your needs/wants.
I new an athlete (American football) that decided to transfer from the college that he attended out of high school, albeit at a lesser division, prior to the 07 season because he wasn’t confident that he would get playing time where he was at.
The program he went to started him right off the bat and he had a great 07 season.
The point of my story is that this athlete did not have the confidence that he would have been allowed to realize his potential at the college that he attended out of high school so he made a decision.
All good posts on this page. I also agree that it’s appalling that many large college college coaches are significantly under qualified. I don’t know why places don’t at least require USATF coaching courses which would put the coach in touch with methods similar to Charlie’s. That being said, a recent NCAA D3 4x100m national champion team was coached by a coach that did not follow what we here would call logical training protocols.
The fact that this coach will not budge on his training means speaks volumes. If the guy truly knows what he’s talking about then he should have no problem letting you try some of your own ideas. Since he is all-knowing, surely you (doing your own thing) will not improve as much as his followers. However, this likely isn’t the case and he knows it.
So what is your specific plan if you quit? Run unattached by yourself? Find a club coach? The impression that I get in the Philly area is that there are some excellent high school coaches. The opposite can be said for the college sprint coaching. A world class jumps coach offered up this frustration to me years ago when I was looking for some hands-on help in the east/central PA region.
James Smith is right on the money here. Great post!
I agree, do not waste your time. I was lucky enough to be in a town surrounded by coaches and athletes that knew a thing or two about track. I actually quite running track for my high school to run with my summer track coach my sophomore and junior year. Best decision I ever made. HE was the best coach that i ever had. He taught me the fundamentals I need to get better. Once again I say quite and move on.
popequique you want him to waste time and keep trying to reason with someone that is obviously just coaching for the check.
I say nothing about competing for someone who just wants a paycheck, you can see my actual concerns in my last post.
Show me where you believe this person is just coaching for a paycheck! Just because someone doesn’t coach the way you want them to doesn’t mean they are just coaching for a paycheck. Because a coach believes in his methods?
There is no way you can tell the coach’s motivation for coaching from this thread, and I think you are unjustly attacking the coach’s motivation. Criticize the 2 weeks of workout that were posted if you want, but not his motivation without actually talking to him.
If a coach is unwilling to change or alter approach, or at the very least listen to the athletes’ concerns, that says enough. Not to mention, if his athletes are getting hurt and/or lacking progress and he still refuses to alter the approach. If he truly cares about making the athletes better, why would he do any of that?
Am think about doing some speed end work prior to my first meet. Do you guys know how many sessions it takes to see improvements? does this vary with individuals and adaptation to training methods?
No one said anything about kids getting injured.
All this is based on one kid that dropped his 100m .23, 200 time by .78 and his 110h time by .84 through his time at Temple.
Tell me whats wrong with those results that a coach now needs to be coached by his athletes.
If you are a novice athlete (11.2 pb with only a few years at most of training is novice IMO) and drop your 100m time .23 in 4 years, I’d say there should be some questions to ask–whether it be the training or the athlete’s motivation and/or health. That kind of progress could simply be due to the athlete maturing and/or getting better racing conditions and situations–and we’re talking over a 4 year period! Most high schoolers don’t train all year and many don’t even train more than a month before the outdoor season. If you’re only getting .23 out of that and in a D1 program, I’d question some things.
Pope, you’re acting like this guy is doing a fine job as a coach. A D1 program with better facilities than the vast majority of the state and he’s having a problem even competing with D3 programs that cannot give scholarships and have significantly worse facilities. Look at your teammates–do you think it is a coincidence they dropped more than .3 in the 55/60m alone and over .5 in the 100m with nothing like the facilities or resources of Temple?
You the man, everyone cant bust huge PR’s like yourself!!! 
I understand that, Mort does a great job. I pr’d by .9 in the 100 and over 2 feet in the long jump. I understand. And my roomate dropped .4 in the 55 and I think around .8 in the 100. Yes thats great and Mort’s a great coach.
But your only looking at the 100, in the 200 and 110h I think pr’ing by .8 in 4 years is pretty good.
So if Mort gets a guy to not have a huge pr in half a season then they should quit the team?
With an event like hurdling, you can’t just look at a PR for progress–How often did he do it in high school and did he even have a coach? I’m sure you’ve seen some of the atrocious hurdling that takes place at the high school level as most schools don’t even have hurdle coaches, let alone coaches that can effectively coach the high hurdles. If his speed didn’t really improve (evidenced by his 100m), I’d wonder if he just learned to hurdle.
Or maybe he didn’t care about track and didn’t go to practice or didn’t try at practice. Or maybe he worked a full-time job on top of going to school and practice.
Its all speculation.
No reason to argue with pope, he sounds like he is best friends with the damn coach.
chib you will see results about a week or 2 after, depending on the quality. It does vary with inviduals and it depends on what have been doing up until now.