Lets go back to the GPP for a minute. Now there is a need for some high stimulus training and you are not ready to get much from sprinting initially AND you’re not ready to lift a lot of weight. What then?
The total stimulus is the intensity (exponential) x the volume/duration (linear).
If a medium high intensity is all that is initially possible, it will require a significantly higher volume to compensate for diminished stimulus. As weights, logically, are the initial means to that stimulus, what means should be employed?
This is so true, if you turn up to a race, and somebody is standing there in front of the blocks, looking a certain way, you just know he will fly. Its not just a muscley body, its more than just that. Some people just skook you right from the start, and sure enough, their results speak for themeselfs.
I remember lookiing at some old camcorder footage of myself doing a 800/1500m on a grass oval. At the start line, compared to everybody else, i looked like a Grayhound. And sure enough, i flogged everybody.
And im only talking state level. World level, the majority of poeple look like that, so its no supprise.
More reps, 8-12 reps? More varied exercises.
A couple of quick questions. First off are we in agreement that relative strength is preferable to needless hypertrophy? Meaning ultimately, over the long term, do we want to minimize weight gain while optimizing maximal strength? During gpp how do we quantify “high stimulus” and why is high stimulus necessary in the context of strength training during gpp?
Weights are generally the first stimulus source in the GPP. I think we can agree that you cannot reconcile modern sprint training with prolonged periods without high intensity- the losses would simply be too great.
Needless hypertrophy is, by definition, needless, but that doesn’t mean that bodybuilding methods have no place in a program or that the effects of such work cannot be mitigated by the other components in the overall program, either concurrently or later on.
When volume is required, you are looking for a means to spread out the load to prevent overuse issues.
Depends on your level and the length of time away from competition and so on. All I’m saying is- don’t limit your options.
Over the last few yrs, i have done a ton of Bb’ing workouts, i needed to. I came from running heaps of mid distance and wanted to start doing some sprints (mainly for fun than making a O team). I am a small touch under 6foot and weight was down to 60kg.
Doing strength work awhile ago, i was going nowehre. I had no muscle to get strong from!
Now, i am up to around 80kg, and tons stronger than i used to be. All from doing Bb’ing exercises. With a shirt on, you would never think i do weights or be rather strong! But now that i have a level of muslce ability (as compared to when i was 60kg)i think its now time i could do the low rep/strength work and start to reap the benifits?
But, as its nearing comp season here in Aust., should i wait for end of season? Or wait till the next Gpp and Spp2 is about to start the lower reps, and perhaps try to learn the O lifts - i have never done them (i have the dvd’s on how to do them now).
Does that make any sence?
Start the lower reps now but not the Oly lifts till you have time to master them in the off season.
Cheers. Will do. 
For developing athletes who are younger in training age would higher reps in the range of 8 - 10 and lighter weight to start the gpp be a better idea as they have a longer GPP. And as it progresses towards the spp get lower to 5 reps and heavier weight. And conversly a more mature athlete who has many years behind and at a higher level who requires a much smaller GPP the weights should be in the 5 rep range as example right away. Does this sound right?
Also there is evidence to suggest that body building methods aka cross-sectional training improves sprint performance, and there is evidence showing that anaerobic capacity appears to be related to muscle mass and thus, fiber hypertrophy may be a desirable adaptation to sprint training IF prime movers are targetted.
Also if you remember I posted a very obscure translation of a study by professor Klaus Wiemann Wuppertal University, which suggested that bb methods applied to the hamstrings IMPROVED sprint performance where as max strength (95%) caused a DECREASE in sprint improvements gained by the bodybuilding/cross-sectional method. The study suggested that cross sectional training was moer effective than max strength and conversion type weights in improving 30m fly times. I have contacted Prof Wiemann, but his english was n’t very good and my german is non-existant; but it seems to be the case that contrary to what they believed would occur…the conversion and max strength weights were less effective. He did not explain why this maybe the case…
Ironic that you mention stretching as the same team led by Wiemann have looked at stretching methods (for hamstrings) that may aid sprint performance. I may add that the improvements were made in not in acceleration using the bodybuilding methods, but in the 30m fly.
I don’t think this is something new and the hamstring is a different issue, as it tends to lose its hypertrophy easily and always needs more work towards that direction. Perhaps the muscle fibres direction of the medial hamstring vs. the rest of the muscle has something to do with a less than optimal response to maximum strength (no reference for this). I think this has been discussed before here (e.g., http://www.charliefrancis.com/community/showthread.php?t=9568&highlight=hamstring ). Others?
yes I know its nothing new I brought it up as evidence to support what CF was saying. Its important to mention things that are not “new” to veterans of the forum from time to time to help newbies understand what we are talking about. The structure of the hams plays a big part. This is due the large percentage of tendinous tissue that makes up the structures in all three parts of the hams…
Is there some exercises that really help in the development of the hamstring other than squat, dl that are use in that study you mentioned. Or is there a thread that has some good exercises for the strengthining of the hamstring.
I like straight leg deadlifts. There’s also reverse hamstring curls, where you fix yourself to a wall by your feet, through say a fixed ladder. From there you try and gently lower yourself to the ground. Good to stress the hamstring eccentrically, much like it has to contract when the knee drive has been reached and the lower part of the leg has to be decelarated to prevent to much knee extension. Am I on the right lines here?
Are the hamstrings predominately white fiber? Should greater emphasis be given to bb training to balance out the red and white fibers?
Yes they are but they are also very very tendinous. I don’t think is as black and white an issue as doing only bb for the hams to balance out white and fast fiber. What can be said is that larger muscle fibre increases anaerobic capacity and also power. It is fair to say that the nature of BB training increases the MHC of the slower type of fast fiber and slow fiber respectively. I am beginning to change my view on the importance of keeping purley type IIb muscle fiber make up. What seems to be more important is the increase of cross-sectional fiber to increase anaerobic capacity and power. What seems to stop muscle from switching from fast to slow (a form of myopathy) is proper nutrition post exercise. Just doing max strength and BB work does not cause muscle fiber change… it is the lack of attention to post exercise NUTRITION AND REGENERATION that probably causes the most damage to fast fiber.
martn–what exercises were used in the study? sorry if that was already mentioned…
what exercises do you like with these bb methods besides squats/dls? I find that bb methods, even with full squats, tend to develop my glutes much moreso than my hamstrings from a size point of view.
martn76, sure, you are right!
Deadlifts, good mornings, reverse hypers, ham curls, standing ham curls, hip extension with iron boot. Take your pick. General exercises that target the hamstrings.
I saw an image of the machine on a german site some years back, it was influenced by East German research. It looked like a heavy duty multi hip machine. The difference being that the subject was strapped in securely allowing generation of high force and speed that could NEVER be reproduced on a simple multi hip machine. BUT THIS IS GOING OFF TOPIC SO LETS STOP THERE!!!