Fall Base Plan 400/800

Hello everyone even though I am still in my competition phase of training, I have started planning for next year as a 400/800 runner but would still like to have 21.5 speed or faster in the 200 and around 10.8 speed in the 100. Tell me what you think on all aspects of my base template.

Monday: Acc Development/Max V

Tuesday: Intensive Tempo (6X300) + Hills

Wednesday: Acc Development/ Max V

Thursday: Intensive Tempo (5X800, 4x1000, 3X1600) + Hills

Friday: Acc Development/ Max V

Saturday: Intensive Tempo (12X200, 10X200, 8X200) + Hills

Sunday: Light Run or Off

I plan to do weights on Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. I like to incorporate lots of olympic lifting in my program so that tends to leave my Nervous System too fatigued to do fast speed work. The volume on the acc/max V days will be very low ~500m or less. The workouts next to the intensive tempo days are just sample things I may do on those days, additionally I like to do large amounts of hill work. Any critiquing would be greatly appreciated.

Your 400/800 or if possible 200/100 m times now?

What event do you plan on focusing on? If it’s the 800 you are not giving your self enough mileage/aerobic development.

100M: 11.2h
200M: 22.36h and 22.55 fat
400M:49.97 fat
800M: 1:57.74 fat

still havent had a chance to drop a 200m in top shape so im looking to go low 22 high 21 fat by the end of summer. I also feel that somehow I am under performing in the 400. The focus for next year is to be a 400/800 runner capable of running fast in the 200 and 4x1. As far as not having enough aerobic work for the 800 I disagree. I think the training rationale for 800m runners especially in the US is flawed, I ran my 800 pr without doing more than a 4 mile run in 6months and did not do any repeats over 600m. I am being recruited both as a 800/1500 runner and as a 100/200/400 runner for college so I would like to keep my options open.

Could you tell me what the training rationale for 800 runners in the US is?

I feel there is too much emphasis on the distance portion of the race and speed is heavily neglected. This conception may invalid but based on what I have seen at the high school and to a limited degree on the college level, distance work is often overused. I am heavily influenced by the type of training Alberto Juantoreana (sp) did.
any comment on the template?

Sorry to say I really don’t like your set up I’m assuming this is your summer program. First off I think you have way to much intensive tempo. and also to much max speed work.

Your working quite hard 5 days in a row.

By the end of summer my guess is you will have sustained some type of injury.

You need to do more research on the 800. Juantoreana was an anomily, but even he did much more aerobic work than what you have listed in your program.

By the way there is no one type of American training for the 800. It has also been argued by many that the reason the US has not produced many world class 800 runners especially in relation to their success in the 400,is because not enough time is spent in the aerobic build up.

i agree with what you said about too much maxV speed work, do you think maybe plyometrics would be a good substitue on two of the days or all of the days? this plan will be for the fall, after I have finished competing this summer. can you clarify what you mean by “too much intensive tempo”?

thats where i got the info on juantorena, he never does more than 9km of running except for a fartlek but that already had pre-programed accelerations so it was essentially and interval workout.

I think that is exactly the problem in regards to american 800m running. They are treated as very different events which leads to few doing both. I am almost postive that Bershawn Jackson ran 1:50 low on an unbanked 200m this indoor season, negative spliting hugely in the process. I highly doubt that he did very little if any aerobic conditioning.

I plan to take a recovery week every 5th week and let my cns deload, I was planning on making that a little more distance orriented including some longerish runs and a fartlek. What are your views on that? I greatly appreciate your constructive critisim.

How do you feel about this setup:

Monday: Max V + Hills
Tuesday: Intensive Tempo
Wednesday: Easy Long Run/Rest
Thursday: Max V + Hills
Friday: Intensive Tempo
Saturday: Long Run/Fartlek/Extensive Tempo
Sunday: Rest

This will give your body a little more rest than the last setup you had.

2 Hard
1 Easy/Off
2 Hard
1 Easy/Medium
1 Off

You should look at the Lactate Threshold Training thread. There is a lot of great information on the 400m there. Take that and add some extra aerobic work as you feel needed and it could translate nicely into working for the 800m too.

P.S. I believe that Page 7 is where a lot of the great info starts.

where would you recomend fitting in weights with that schedule? I would like to try and have 2-3 days a week, with a focus on the olympic lifts.

What about this I took yours and flipped the hills and changed one Max V to Accel?

Monday: Max V + Weights
Tuesday: Intensive Tempo + Hills
Wednesday: Easy Long Run
Thursday: Accel + Weights
Friday: Intensive Tempo + Hills
Saturday: Fartlek/Extensive Tempo
Sunday: Rest

Would making sunday extensive tempo be too much even if I made the fartlek or slower paced distance work on friday lower intensity?

Your setup is probably fine with what you’ve swapped around. How far are your hills?

I would still leave Sunday as a rest day. Your legs are getting pounded throughout the week. They would probably be begging for a day off by Sunday anyways.

I’m not sure how far you’re thinking for the fartlek but you might want to combine it with the extensive tempo on Saturday. Something like this:

2 Mile Fartlek
2000m Tempo
2 Mile Fartlek

I’m not sure what kind of distance or volume you have in mind, but this will give you an idea.

yea I like the fartlek and extensive tempo mix, i will deff incorporate that.
as far as the hills, they varry on length depending on how I feel/what I have been doing lately.
what are anyones recomendations as far as hill work?

I also read that thread you recomended and think I will incorporate the 6x200 session that they all talk about in my spp. I will probably also include 150’s. What else is recomended for spp? I was thinking maybe 350’s

Since you’re going to be running the 800 too you might want to include intervals that are closer to that distance. If you stick with two intensive tempo days a week one may focus on shorter runs (150m-200m) while the other focuses on longer runs (400m-600m).

This is just an idea though.

The 800m isn’t talked about as much here, but there’s some good info if you search for it. I’ve found the thread 800m/Middle Distances useful. It’ll provide you with several links discussing the 800m.


There’s one link, I believe the 5th one on the list entitled, “Charlie how you would train an 800m runner” that I really like.

Hope this helps.

I’ve seen Juantorena’s programme (a long time ago) but I can’t recall any acceleration or max speed work being included. I thought the fastest work was stuff like 2 sets of 3x200 in 21-22 with short breaks, which would be optimal specific work for a 400-800m runner. But mostly it was longer tempo’s. I hope you do not intend to add heavy sprinters sessions to this already hard programme. Make sure you keep a Hi-Lo format (1 day hard - 1 day easy).

yes he didnt have any maxV work but he had a very small amount of acceleration. The influence comes from the high volume of tempo based work which is why I don’t necesarily agree with the High-Low format but rather a mix of high, medium, and low.

in regards to kirbster, thats right on with what I was thinking one day would be distances 150-350 and the other 450-1000. For some reason I have a phobia of running 400’s in practice.

Part of the reason I asked on here even though it is primarily a sprint focused board is because I feel some principles of sprinting apply very well. Those links you provided are wonderfull, thanks.

A phobia of 400s? Haha I don’t blame you. In my High School program I think we ran more of those than anything.

I’m glad those links helped you. I agree some speed principles can be applied to middle distance. One day when I coach I’ll prove it to my athletes :smiley:

yea belive it or not my favorite xc/mile workout is 8x400 @70 with 60sec recovery.

saturday I pr’d with a 1:55.00 split at nike outdoor nationals in the dmr, so my training must be working somewhat

Congratulations on the PR.

Have you been following a program similar to the one in this thread?

somewhat, it has the same principle. no mileage in the last 6 months and within the last 2 months lots of intensive tempo but still not as much hill work as I would have liked. tomorow is USATF youth nationals 800m prelims

Well good luck.