To read about EMS you can go here:
http://www.hammernutrition.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=3&sid=dfd6707fe67b79b93d3dd1e7129169f2
or
http://www.globussht.com/ResearchEMS
or
http://jap.physiology.org/search?fulltext=EMS&submit=yes&x=0&y=0
I just received my unit today. My girlfriend did a recovery session on her hamstrings, she’s asleep right now from it. I’m looking forward to using it for some sciatica/IT band taughtness/piriformis syndrome I’ve developed on my right glute/hip.
Also looking to use it for maximal force protocols… I will be running Sheiko #29. I will be starting week 2 tomorrow… the template basically is 9 sets of squats ramping up to 80% tops along with some bench and front squats. In terms of the intensity, it is not high - but the volume adds up. I never feel I am really straining myself too hard to finish the designated reps.
Should I wait until I run a program like Smolov for squats, which is utter hell. It is 4 times a week doing 35 reps at 65-85% of my 1RM for 3 week interval and up to 12 weeks for the full program. Extremely extremely high intensity. Would the maximal force work better then? I’m just wondering if the EMS would have decreased results if I used it in conjunction with Sheiko, or if I should just wait to do Smolov with the maximal force protocols for higher muscle adaptation to higher stimulated contractions.
By the way you describe it, Sheiko sounds better from a long term perspective even though I’ve never done it. I used the 3 week smolov base cycle over a year ago when I didn’t having access to Olympic lifts. I added 15lbs to my squat but felt like it took a while to recover from. There’s no way that I would have used EMS and smolov at the same time from how brutal I remember it being. EMS is just a supplement to a training program. But it’s still going to induce fatigue and mask fitness just like voluntary training will and it probably will take time to see the results from the treatments. Use the program with the highest amount of hertz and an ON:OFF ratio that’s 1:5. I think explosive strength on the Globus would be ideal.
Wermouth, the link at the Journal of Applied Physiology, is only a search for the term EMS, which doesn’t necessarily yield all results for Electrical Muscle Stimulation. It shows also Expulsive Maneuvers, and obviously it misses references for other similar search terms such NMES or others. I also would suggest to broaden the search to PubMEd
Awesome, thanks Ku2u, have you found that the EMS units help with strength gains? Any resulting hypertrophy?
Giovanni
On the right side of the screen you have got space to place the term you are looking for, If you wish you can put NMES, EMS Electrical muscle stimulation or whatever, I have found that website extremely interesting and at the same time worth suggesting, Anyway thanks for contribution re PubMEd deferentially worth looking into it.
Athlete I coached had an Achilles injury (long story) and couldn’t lift, run etc… for 3months.
We have used EMS progression over six weeks. I went on holiday and got a message that she has improved her Dead-Lift PB by 15kg and that she could lift way more but her form wasn’t best therefore she had to stop (luckily nothing happened)
Conclusion might be that there could be many factors contributing to this good improvement and EMS might be one of them.
I’m looking for how specific pad placement needs to be on the origins and bellies as well as long term programming… checking out the search function doesn’t bring up too many results. Maybe my wording is off?
is this the best resource: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1NebNqe7ux-WmcRR649-SEoam4IzBvKQlnhgg1hiU4dI/edit#
How does mA convert to Hz?
I’m looking for where to decide how much mA per session… always until it hurts for strength?
I also bought an IR lamp and looking forward to using that for recovery and warmups.
I wrote guidelines for pad placement in this web page, but it’s not any different from what I wrote in the EMS Digest you referred to.
I don’t think there is a conversion, the former is frequency, the latter is current intensity. Hz is the number of times per seconds the muscle fibers twitch when commanded by the EMS machine; mA is the current intensity flowing in your muscle Hz times per second.
One works with progressively higher frequencies (Hz) to progressively target and tweak faster-twitch fibers (although at the same time slow-twitch fibers will be involved too).
One works with higher current intensity (mA) to reach deeper muscle fibers and recruit more fibers as a consequence.
I hope this helps.
Wermouth, by definition PubMed contains all peer-reviewed research, therefore it would also contain your Journal of Applied Physiology search.
2 years ago when I was training for skeleton I couldn’t sprint for four months. During one training block alone (9-12 EMS sessions) I used EMS only on the hamstrings and my back squat went up at least 30lbs. When I finally could run again, I was hitting PRs shortly after coming back and easing into sprints. I’ve used EMS a lot more since then but only because I’ve been dealing with an injury for over a year now. Whenever I get back into normal training, we’ll see how much the EMS sessions have paid off. I can tell you that it’s helped prevent a lot of atrophy post surgery at the very least.
There was a study done back in '89 where a weightlifter added 20kg to his front squat: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2674035.
That’s an excellent study. I’d like to look into the protocols they used, but I can’t seem to pull up the full text.
In terms of mA used during sessions - I’m currently going to try the Strength Training program listed within the EMS Digest … Maximal Strength for 3 weeks at 3 sessions a week on my quads, hamstrings/glutes, and triceps/pecs. In this program it cycles through one warm up session, then a session of intense contraction and a resting contraction, and then finally a cooldown session.
One questions above others:
-
What sort of mA should I be aiming for in the long term? Giovanni mentioned progressively higher frequencies. I think I would have to start programming the device on my own for this, yes? I have the Elite 2 Pro and the only options available to tweak the current programs is through the intensity.
-
Does this look alright - this is the session I did last night… holy crap it took a long time and the hamstrings felt really painful, I think my pad placement was a bit off on hams - it’s difficult to apply the pads to your posterior without help; I did so in a mirror.
quads - warm up to 30 mA, contracting 65 mA/resting 25 mA, cooldown 25 mA
hams/glutes - warm up to 25 mA, contracting 33 mA/resting 20 mA, cooldown 20 mA
pecs/tris - warm up to 20 mA, contracting 25 mA/resting 15 mA, cooldown 15 mA
If I were to progressively load these intensities. What sort of jumps should I be making per session, for my Wednesday sessions for example and then on Friday? I’m coming at this from the ideology of a strength training program where one would progressively add weight each session at small increments, or each week jump to a new weight. I have three designs I’m wondering which would work better as a M/W/F protocol…
moderate day/light day/intense day
moderate/higher/higher -> continue the next week starting at a higher base of maybe Wednesday’s mA
max/max/max -> try to reach as high as possible each day and only go by physical responses that gauge when to stop the intensity
ORRRR scrap all of this and program my own sessions with the progressively higher frequencies rather than the progressively higher intensities as mentioned above.
Thank you for reading these posts by the way. I know it’s quite scrambled, but I have so many questions. If my fundamental knowledge on this process seems lacking from the way I’ve constructed this programming I would really appreciate the support to learn from my mistakes.
Cheers!
(On a side note, even though I bought splitter cables for my two channel unit I can still see the immensely beneficial perks to having a four channel unit all with splitter cables as well. My session took near 2 hrs. If my results come through heavily on the first two months, this might be over reaching a bit, I’d like to purchase a Sports unit to aid in the time management this would aid. I can see how the investment would pay off in the long run.)
I do have that study, but it’s dated and uses antiquated waveforms, that pale compared to current technology: they used a triangular waveforms with carrier at 2500 Hz and 75 bursts per second. They also claim the user went up to 200 mA, which is a bogus claim since the machine they used could deliver only 100 mA. That makes me think the investigators didn’t check what the machine was delivering and/or applied the concept of peak-to-peak to current, which is incorrect. It is from tests like this that was born the legend that to obtain results EMS has to be painful.
Definitely don’t look into the protocols used in the study that I posted! I was just using it as an example of what kind of gains studies are claiming, and it was a poor example.
Now to answer your question, I think many of them could be answered in these videos that Derek created: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jJ4C-JcBEo. Progression between session to session really depends on your tolerance. Aim for a strong contraction each time, but don’t aim for such a strong contraction to where you can’t go to bed afterwards. Come up with your own rhythm, maybe every week aim to increase the mAmps by 5%. I think it would be a good idea to start with 80hz during your first block, 100hz in the second block, and maybe 120hz in the 3rd block. Even though you’re not a sprinter, I think it would be beneficial to get your hands on the Key concepts elite book. Charlie gives a good description of the overall picture on how to incorporate EMS into a periodized plan.
I remember my hamstrings were sore for days when I first used EMS. Each of my sessions take at least 90min for 3 body parts if I’m really moving through it. I also use a mirror to make sure the pads are placed in the right places.
Athlete I coached have used such a progression
|Weeks
|
|week 1|week 2|week 3|week 4
|week 5|week 6|week 7|
|Days
|Mon|Wed|Fri|Mon|Wed|Fri|Mon|Wed|Fri|OFF
|Mon|Wed|Fri|Mon|Wed|Fri|Mon|Wed|Fri|
|Level
|1|1|2|2|2|3|3|3|4|3|3|4|4|4|5|5|5|5|
|Reps|6|6|8|8|8|10|10|10|12|10|10|12|12|12|14|14|14|14|
|Time|10|10|10|10|10|10|10|10|10|10|10|10|10|10|10|10|10|10|
|FQ|90|90|95|95|95|100|100|100|105|100|100|105|105|105|110|110|110|110|
|Recovery
|50|50|50|50|50|50|50|50|50|50|50|50|50|50|50|50|50|50|
|Recov FQ |6|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|
In my opinion you should go with the feeling of good tension/ contraction and NOT with the high number of mA
The intensity numbers will be up eventually, but my advice is not to rash it.
|Weeks
|
|week 1|week 2|week 3|week 4
|week 5|week 6|week 7|
|Days|Mon|Wed|Fri|Mon|Wed|Fri|Mon|Wed|Fri|OFF
|Mon|Wed|Fri|Mon|Wed|Fri|Mon|Wed|Fri|
|Level|1|1|2|2|2|3|3|3|4|3|3|4|4|4|5|5|5|5|
|Reps|6|6|8|8|8|10|10|10|12|10|10|12|12|12|14|14|14|14
|
|Time|10|10|10|10|10|10|10|10|10|10|10|10|10|10|10|10|10|10|
|FQ|90|90|95|95|95|100|100|100|105|100|100|105|105|105|110|110|110|110
|
|Recovery (sec)|50|50|50|50|50|50|50|50|50|50|50|50|50|50|50|50|50|50|
|Recovery FQ
|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|
We have used such a progression
In my opinion you should go with the feeling of good tension/ contraction and NOT with the high number of mA
The intensity numbers will be up eventually, but my advice is not to rash it.
| Weeks | week 1 | week 2 | week 3 | week 4 | week 5 | week 6 | week 7 |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Days | Mon | Wed | Fri | Mon | Wed | Fri | Mon |
| Level | 1 | 1 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 3 | 3 |
| Reps | 6 | 6 | 8 | 8 | 8 | 10 | 10 |
| Time | 10 | 10 | 10 | 10 | 10 | 10 | 10 |
| FQ | 90 | 90 | 95 | 95 | 95 | 100 | 100 |
| Recovery (sec) | 50 | 50 | 50 | 50 | 50 | 50 | 50 |
| Recov FQ | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 |
We have used such a progression
In my opinion you should go with the feeling of good tension/ contraction and NOT with the high number of mA
The intensity numbers will be up eventually, but my advice is not to rash it.
Cheslink, as pointed out by other posters, you should clarify for yourself your comprehension of frequency and current intensity. You also post mA levels as if they were a term of comparison with what other people may have done. Different people have different tissue physiology, lean mass, capillarization etc. For instance I’m helping right now a person who is afflicted by a rare condition that produces excess capillary and soft tissue; he could feel only a weak contraction at 70 mA and the beginning of a normal contraction at 90 mA.
Concentrate rather on muscle recruitment, which you have to gage by experience, comparing your EMS contraction to a maximum voluntary contraction.
giovanni: It’s quite a complicated subject, more so than I had previously thought. I’m not sure how to work with frequencies as people are mentioning. It would be great to find the programs of the Globus units, particularly the one I own, listed in terms of something similar to what wermouth posted above to gauge where each program is at to better understand the subject. I’ll just base the next 3 weeks off muscle recruitment then and see how that goes. I look forward to giving a positive review.
Ku2u: This video was really helpful to see that cross pattern they were using. I’ll definitely implement this tomorrow when I use the device. I actually watched this before purchasing the unit, but missed a lot of the things that have been mentioned in this thread so it has been great to rewatch it.
wermouth: This is incredibly helpful! I need to figure out how to set my own programs now. I’ll run through a phase of 3 weeks with the maximal strength program in the machine and then try this out. Thanks wermouth.
This video was really helpful to see that cross pattern they were using. I’ll definitely implement this tomorrow when I use the device. I actually watched this before purchasing the unit, but missed a lot of the things that have been mentioned in this thread so it has been great to rewatch it.
This is incredibly helpful! I need to figure out how to set my own programs now. I’ll run through a phase of 3 weeks with the maximal strength program in the machine and then try this out. Thanks wermouth.