It has been suggested that cleans with a staggered start are more movement spacific to sprinting. I’ve put them into my program and I like them.
Also, I now do something I can only call:
“Dumbell, staggered start, rotational clean and press” Alternating legs.(One arm. Next set with other arm.)
and…
“Dumbell high pull and lift over to one side” (sort of like a medball throw action, but to one side and not letting go of the weight.)
There are a lot of rotational forces in athletics (amongst other forces) and I’m doing a lot more work based on various movements now, especially with my core training (last year), with posative results.
However, I have just this fortnight, re-introduced Olympic variations into my program after not bothering with them for 5 years and I’m including;
Power snatch from hang, powerclean from hang.
What does the forum think of the 3 exercises at top of this page?
I would think a staggered start in the clean position would have your back out of position/alignment and severely increase the risk of injury. Do not overcomplicate the lifts. OLYs are for reactive strength and explosiveness.
A question that is kind of related - David: with hang cleans/snatches, how far down do you go down with the weight? Abover the knee? below the knee? in line with the knee? Down to mid shin?
Dumbbell snatches teach great skill and hip strike…swings are not worth any risk…keep the weight light and you can do single arm work. In fact I prefer snatches with dumbell as a teaching tool from powerball snatch throws.
David, I’m not trying to be too clever. I don’t find the lifts I’ve mentioned to complicated. If anything I’d find regular powercleans and snatches harder than from the hang, as I would have to concentrate more on the transition from first to second pull. … and no, none of my dumbell work involves snatches / snatching. However, I thought I’d add wearing ice skates to standing on a swiss ball with eyes closed
Even where I wrote “dumbell rotational clean and press” I should have written rotation high pull to side.
Never the less, I Do have a question for you especially, anyone is welcome to answer;
When I do cleans or snatch from the hang should it involve my feet comming of the ground before the catch?
I’ve seen a picture of an athlete doing an Oly lift whereby their feet were several inches of the floor before the catch. If this is to be included what would the timing be and to what benefit? Would it build more reactive strength as the feet land?
Yes, perhaps I should have said that I am keeping the dumbell movements very light. Never going to aim for pb’s with these dumbell movements. Just what ever feels comfortable and if the weight goes up a little sometime then that’s that. I’m deffinately using those for movemnt skills only.
[q]I’ve seen a picture of an athlete doing an Oly lift whereby their feet were several inches of the floor before the catch. If this is to be included what would the timing be and to what benefit? Would it build more reactive strength as the feet land?[/q]
Typically you do want to come off the floor ‘too much’. Good OL stay on the floor longer as once you leave the floor you can not ‘push off’ it anymore.
Where did you see this picture? If he was more then 2-3 inch’s off the floor he was doing it with too light a weight or isn’t that great of an OL. Typically an OL does not want to leave the floor for long.
Light work with one dumbell adds a rotational elemant that I believe is important to sprinting. I also think that training “movements” is beneficial to the sprinter as movement is really a part of power in athletics. Not just force times speed.
Still, I am also including barbell cleans and snatches from the hang and will gradually add weight over the comming weaks to these barbell lifts as I get more powerfull and efficiant in them. Only just added them to my program.
exactly and i think again this is turning towards an argument of specific weightroom work, but i think its been proven repeatedly and stated by charlie, david w, etc…that general movements work the best…Ive also found this…
I’m 50/50 on that one. Yes, on the one hand I totally agree and am relatively conscious of the finite rate of adaptation but that is why I do such a low volume of each exercise. Some exercises I do for just 1 set. That is why I still feel enough training energy for the lighter rotational and stagerred lifts which are not huge on muscle stress anyway. None of my workouts are lasting longer than 40 minutes, even if it means 2 weight workouts in the same day sometimes. I seem to be recovering o.k, I’m training 2 days out of every 3 on average.
U say that sprinting is 100 % spacific in terms of the rotational element but I feel that sprinting is very limited at getting muscle power improvements from it, and to much sprinting for intermediate leval athletes will just put them into a “groove” whereby it will be hard to adjust bad habits, and hard to teach the nervous system to fire better for faster sprinting. This is the rut that a percentage of 100m runners fall in to. I’ve massively decreased my total sprint volume, ripped up my technique a little, and I’m concentrating more on my home and gym workouts. I’m busting out of the groove, and I’m allready having posative results. I’ve twice broken my 60m pb this January and early March and in cold weather.
If I was doing more sprinting then I might have to consider dropping some gym exercises.
David, I feel that these dumbell rotational lifts Do enhance performance.
SIDE NOTE to 200-400m guys & girls. I’m only suggesting that a percentage of 100m runners massively decrease the volume of their sprint work for a trial period of 6 to 12 weaks and focus more on other training variables to “unlock the groove”, this may help the first 60 meters of their 100m,though I realise 200 & 400m specialists need to do running every weak becuase of the endurance element.
