Dont understand this logic.....

Maybe you can help…(from a while ago)

I received prolo for my knee (1 session) ,foot,ankle (4-6 sessions) ,tendons conecting to foot (2 sessions), ect. Everything was healed in the giving time frame. Though I dont understand one thing.

Taken with permission from:
Caring Medical
Ross Hausser MD
715 Lake St.Suite 600, Oak Park, IL
60301

I am reading a prolotherapy instruction sheet for post prolo procedures…
(Ill skip down a few lines)

  1. What can be done for pain post procedure

    a. apply moist heat to treated area

    b. you may take tylenol, ultram, codeine for pain if needed. DO NOT take
    … on long term basis

    c. Natural Pain releavers that are very helpful are bromelain, an enzyme
    …derived from pinapple, cayenne, curumin. These can be
    …used without side effects.
    d. you may see a massage therapist for massage to help muscle spasms.

    e. you may see chiropractic physicain for ultrasound, myofascial release,
    …activator treatments
    f. moving the area around. Movement helps you heal. Gentle range of
    …motion exercise, walking, ect. are helpful

  2. What should I avoid during prolotherapy?

    Do not take any anti-imfammatory medications, such as aspirin, motrin
    ibuprofen, aleive, ect. Remember, Prolotherapy works by imflammation
    therefore you do not want to stop the antiimflam response that
    is causing your body to heal


Q: Why would they opt for tylenol,ultram,codeine over motrin,ibrophen,aleive? I just do not understand the logic here. Dont they all reduce imflammation? Wouldnt they want to just illiminate all NSAIDS here altogether? Of course some situations there would be extreme pain.I am talking strickly to when you are using prolotherapy. Maybe these are more natural? Any thoughts…

On another sheet though he goes farther to mention dmso,msm ect also…Im just wondering for the NSAIDS for now and the logic behind it? And what are your thoughts on the natural healers he listed?

Over 300 shots! Only one hurt.

dr.sprint

Tylenol is not an anti-inflamatory and does not reduce inflamation, it only reduces pain. Advil, motrin, aleve, etc are all NSAIDs (non-steroidal anti-inflammatories). Prolotherapy is based on the premise that inflamation is the first step in the body healing itself, so the use of NSAID or an SAIDs is self-defeating.

No question about that. I think my question should have been why arent they considered NSAIDS.

What im really saying is they must all reduce imflamation to a point. I know codeine and its relation to morphine ect. I think if im correct though, tylenol,codein ect are only supposed to be used for the intial pain of the injection to like you said stop pain. But if they dont stop imflammation I assume thats why Hausser is saying you can use them. I was given procaine at high dosages in a sort of neural therapy so I wouldnt have any pain. I would be interested to here anyones thoughts on this subject… Trust me I havent taken a NSAID in about two years.

dr.sprint

You mean opiods??? (SP)

Codeine, Ultram do reduce imflamm, though I couldnt find anything for tylenol (though I find it hard to believe it doesnt in some way).

dr.sprint

http://www.cpmission.com/main/NSAIDs2.html

16,500…Deaths per year!

Tim, you’ve mentioned that you have doctors in your family. Maybe you could ask them what they think?
I don’t think it’s a good idea for Hauser and other Prolotherapists to recommend pain killers such as thosementioned above, since these have been found to slow down the healing process by inhibiting collagen and protein synthesis. Post prolotherapy pain is almost never severe enough to warrant taking these medications. Bromelain would be a better choice for reducing pain, however, bromelain also reduces inflammation, which is counterproductive to prolotherapy. Therefore, it also surprises me that Hauser offers his patients a formula containing bromelain and other natural anti-inflammatories. I guess he’s all about making money for himself and his Nutritionist wife. By the way, although Hauser is well publicized, he is by no means the most experienced Prolotherapist in the US. Hauser has tried to make a lot of money by writing books such as ‘Prolo Your Pain Away’, ‘Prolo Your Sports Injury Pain Away’, ‘Prolo Your Arthritis Pain Away’ etc. He actually studied Prolotherapy 2 years after my doctor in Australia.
The 2 most experienced practitioners in the world are Ongley and Dorman.

I hate to say this but I agree with you to an extent. Also there are no doctors in my family, at least none that I can think of.

dr.sprint

Cant forget Gustav Hemwall he treated more then 10,000 patients world wide!

dr.sprint

Anways most experienced was not my point. I was giving a background about who studied under who. Both therapists you mentioned are in all his books and highly respected.

Hackett (father of prolotherapy)-Guzman (worlds most experienced prolo)-Hausser (what I believe to be the world leader).

dr.sprint

this is a good thread though lets keep it going…

The shots…
Your right on the severity of prolo pain. I didnt feel a thing for any of them except one. Keep in mind the first doctor I saw didnt even use anything such as cooling agents on my skin to dull the pain… And these shots are going right into the area that is sore. He basically presses down and says does this hurt. If there is a jump response from me he will go ahead and inject the solution. Im not just talking about like one either. Like 10-20 at a time, sometimes more. Its important to breath deep and think about anything to get your mind off the shot. After having my knee completly fixed I start to notice my foot was having problems too. My knee hurt so much that I never noticed my foot hurt also. My last series of shots was into the foot and ankle and tendons down the leg connecting to them. Im talking all over my foot/ankle …but the foot is probally one of the most painfull areas you can have them in. I remember the doctor looking over at the student training “where going to have anty up on this last shot”. Keep in mind they have already sprayed a cooling agent on my foot, giving me the limit of cc for procaine and are giving me the limit for their solution. I get handed two squishy balls one for each hand to hold on. I could feel every drop of cc going into my foot. I dont think I have ever been in so much pain in my life. Besides that the shots were fine.

dr.sprint

Hemwall and Hackett are deceased. Hauser is not the world leader in prolotherapy, although, he would like people to think he is.

Some prolo injections can be quite painful, especially around the foot/ankle region, however, this pain usually disappears quickly after the injection and requires no pain killing medication.

Not to break off topic but I just heard on the news a guy shipped himself airmail! That may be the only thing cheaper then buying tickets “rail sale” from amtrack…Hold on Ill post some more info on the what actually happens during the injection.

dr.sprint

From Permission of caring medical.
I asked if swelling was normal for prolotherapy in the foot.
Heres the response:

Hi Tim! I’m glad you had a good visit! To address your concerns –
swelling and bruising at the injection site is completely normal after
Prolotherapy. Prolotherapy causes an inflammatory reaction, which
explains the swelling, and the bruising is caused by rupture of tiny
blood vessels around the treated area. Whenever you are given any kind
of shot, the potential for hitting those tiny blood vessels is there.
They heal themselves back up within a few days, and the swelling goes
down after a few days as well. Mine usually lasted about 3 days after
the procedure. If you have any further questions, please feel free to
ask!

Your right the smaller extremities/joints are usually more painfull.

dr.sprint

*Note

I did not have swelling in either my knee/ankle or tendons on my leg at all.