No argument there mortac8, they may have been the “few” who were good in spite of their training. I work with many aspiring young basketball players and the results we have achieved in vj came from the “less is more” philosophy. I just haven’t personally seen mega-rep programs do much for vj improvement so I was a bit curious as to Popequiques’ response. As he said, that wasn’t all that was in his program, so hard to say what was benefitting his vj directly. Sorry to the group for getting off the subject of DOMS.
ive trained maximally for every rep of my workouts, doing multiple sessions a day never doing the samething twice and unless i did something wrong never felt sore. soreness is a product of inflamation and injury. both of which can and should be avoided at all costs.
ive always found it funny that so many believe in order to rais the functional level of an individuaul you must first damage it. maybe you are thinking you take 1 step back and 2 forward or something either way its detrimental. people walk into the gym for a few months get sore and get bigger their bench goes up whatever and they are happy… what a joke.
How did you do it?
ive trained maximally for every rep of my workouts, doing multiple sessions a day never doing the samething twice and unless i did something wrong never felt sore. soreness is a product of inflamation and injury. both of which can and should be avoided at all costs.
ive always found it funny that so many believe in order to rais the functional level of an individuaul you must first damage it. maybe you are thinking you take 1 step back and 2 forward or something either way its detrimental. people walk into the gym for a few months get sore and get bigger their bench goes up whatever and they are happy… what a joke.
What were your improvements again for this track season james, i cant seem to find where you posted any of your results?
Depends on muscle load and position- less likely with PUs that lunges for example. I suppose we didn’t really get it because of the high differential between the maximal bench and the load of a push-up. At least I never heard any of our guys complain of DOMS after depletion sessions.
When I was at my highest leval of mass (5 years ago), it wasn’t accompanied by any soreness.
When I was at my fastest (6,5,3 years ago and now best form in 2.5 years) - NO SORENESS.
When I had soreness;…wait for it… No improvement in speed, temporary inflamation in muscles, back to square 1 again whence finally recovered from session/s that made me sore.
HAS ANYBODY had a differant experiance to this?
Yes, I have. There may not be universal principles for everyone. Also there are hundreds of factors in performance other than doms. In college I was so sore and tired most of the time I could barely run at times but if I ever got a few days off I would run well. A lot of that soreness was due to excessive weights followed by int tempo.
Who cares if you get sore? Isn’t that was the tempo/low days are for?
Are you sure?
When Myself or my athletes (we have done this for a few cycles) do 3 sets of pushups to failure or better yet myself and only 3 other ppl in the school who are ablr to do 50,40,30,20,10 pushups with 60 seconds rest I am sore for over 4 days. About the same for them. I am talking about every single one of them. I don’t understand if you are doing a true depletion session to failure how you can not be sore. The next 2 weeks there was still soreness but maybe for 2 days and a bit less. If I don’t do the session for 3 weeks come back to it I’m back at step 1. Sore as hell for 4-5 days.
Yes, but our depletion scheme is 3 sets to failure with 90sec break.
Different exercise, different result.
It’s not really enough to complain about–more like light residual soreness. There is a big difference I am guessing between the soreness you are referring to and the soreness I am talking about, which may be considered “tightness.” I mean I think my differential when I was doing them was big enough (265x2 on bench @ 165lbs), but who knows.
man i get sore all the time not doms though but soreness nonetheless.
Do we need to be SORE to GROW?
no.
its ridiculus if you are constantly sore from training.
you grow becuase you stress your muscles and they are forced to adapt. its pretty much survival of the fitest going on inside your body and youd body usually always comes out on top 
you do NOT need to be sore though…
correction…
you get stronger because you stress your muscles and your muscles adapt in order to handle bigger loads.
you GROW because you take in more calories than you burn
simple is that.
No if it was as simple as that we would all be 500lb fat asses
actually it IS as simple as that.
that is the basics of it all. of course you can get into detail about everything.
but when you take away everything else all it comes down to is eating more than you burn off.
That is not the basics of it all, if someone wanted that kind of answer of what causes muscle growth they could just type in muscle growth in wikipedia or pick up the first fitness book they see. That is not all muscle growth is.
Muscle growth deals with your nutritional intake, sleep, lifting rep scheme, intensity, length of workout, etc.
The question is if muscle pain is needed for growth most likely in the form of doms. I believe microtrauma is needed for growth as I believe a majority of people do. The cause of DOMS is still fully not known, but from my uneducated understanding its a combination of muscle trauma which causes swelling and then comes the antinflamatory response of the body, etc and things get confusing.
My general thought is that soreness is not needed for muscle growth as it is basically the body telling you that something is “wrong” and its trying to fix it.
That being said I do not believe soreness is necessarily bad, especially if it is timed properly and does not effect future workouts.
Even with all of this strength gains are another story.