In regards to these 3 lifts what are the main differences in terms of benefit to a power athlete. All 3 involve triple extension. Is it necessary to catch the weight on the clean to get the benefit?
I think there are two branches of answers to this question. One branch would be the benefits on strength and development of force production of each exercise, which I’ll leave to more knowleadgeable members to answer, and then there is the time in which it’s applied which is a major application to sprinters. For example during maintenance we’d just be looking for the exercise which provides the type of stimulus to the CNS we’re looking for, so I’d assume we’d either do the exercise that activates the most motor units submaximally and for less reps, or you could go heavy with the shrugs, but that could bring a conditioning risk since you’re in maintenance. Then during gpp we’ll be looking for an exercise to serve as a bridge before max strength and/or build technique so in this phase I’d choose the shrugs or pulls over cleans and so on with each phase of training. There will be people that will surely answer better, but here is something to get started with.
No, but it is difficult to quantify progress without the catch.
There is no athletic benefit from catching/racking the barbell. In fact, many lifters actually sacrifice true triple extension in an effort to get themselves under the barbell in order to clean the weight.
I personally, and I know David will attack me for this one, would never have any athlete, except an OL lifter or strongmen, perform any cleans or snatches due to the 1. lack of athletic benefit from actually cleaning the bar and potential trauma to wrist (as you must possess a great deal of flexibility about the wrist to catch the bar on your finger tips), and 2. the cost:benefit of potentially causing trauma to the shoulder complex from snatching.
I am much more of an advocate of horizontal pressing, therefore any addition of overhead pressing is likely to cause shoulder irritation. This is the reason why many athletes who do a lot of OL lifts tend to experience shoulder pain when bench pressing. Simply to much abuse on the shoulder. If you are doing a high volume of overhead lifts than you must be careful with how much ‘bench’ pressing you do. Conversely, if you perform a high volume of bench presssing than you must be careful of how much overhead work you do.
A good way to qualify the height of a snatch/clean pull is to pull inside a power rack. Set up bands or bungie cords, or rope/string, etc… at the desired height and try to pull the bar to the bands/bungies/rope/string.
If you do not have access to a rack, then simply have a partner hold a broomstick or pvc pipe at the desired height.
However, the problem that most lifters exhibit when pulling for height is that they use too much arm action. So be sure and focus on the power comming from your legs/traps.
Stick to pull variations and heavy med ball throws.
James
So from the rest of your post I gather that the shoulder problems with snatching come more from catching it overhead than pulling with a snatch grip?
This is correct. The act of deccelerating, stopping, and stabilizing a heavy load overhead is very taxing on the shoulder girdle.
James
Thanks jman.
Are you saying that there’s no athletic benefit in catching the bar or cleaning the bar?
Also, I think that there would be similar amounts of shoulder injuries from horizontal presses as there would be from snatches.
Pulls, from floor, mid shin, knee, mid thigh, to “nipple” height.
Shrugs, Snatches all good
No need to catch the weight… and more than some risk.
Most specific to women that sprint/jump, needing lower body power and working on same will develop to the point that triple extension will overmatch the ability to “clean” the weights needed for training.
The athletic benefit to finishing a clean is a more dynamic response when the cops yell, “Hands Up”
Specially if upper body isnt a prime player in your given athletic endevor.
Yes
Only if the two movements are performed in high volumes, respectively, during the same training program.
Athletes who perform a high volume of OL’s/overhead pressing tend to perform a lower volume of horizontal pressing, whereas, athletes who perform a high volume of horizontal pressing tend to perform a lower volume of OL’s/overhead work.
You will be hard pressed to find an OL who complains of shoulder pain when overhead pressing, additionally, you will be hard pressed to find a powerlifter who complains of shoulder pain when bench presssing.
You will, however, find many OL’s who complain of shoulder pain when bench pressing, additionally, you will also find many powerlifters who complain of shoulder pain when overhead presssing or performing OL’s.
James
[QUOTE=CoachMdd]The athletic benefit to finishing a clean is a more dynamic response when the cops yell, “Hands Up”
But, if you perfect your lifts, won’t you be able to put some daylight between you and your pursuers?
god this site rocks!
[QUOTE=jman316]There is no athletic benefit from catching/racking the barbell. In fact, many lifters actually sacrifice true triple extension in an effort to get themselves under the barbell in order to clean the weight.
I fail to see how there is no athletic benefit from catching/racking the barbell. Lets see, at the beginning of the movment(start of the clean) the knees and hips are both in flexion, even more when you are pulling from the ground. and then in one explosive pull your hips, knees, and ankles go into full extention, then right after full extention you have to quickly go back into flexion to catch/rack the weight. Now all of that happens in a split second or less. Now if that isnt athletic, i dont know what is!!!
AS DAVID W SAID(the biggest advocate of Oly’s on this site) NO THERE ISN’T, IT’S ONLY BENEFIT IS IT QUANTIFIES PROGRESS.
You know what they say…
When you read the front page of the newspaper you never read anything about the bank robber pulling a hamstring during the getaway!!!
I’m seriously thinking about breaking the law just for the soul purpose of getting in a foot race with a cop. First I’ll dance around him with plyometric exercises, then I’ll kick it into 5th gear pull away from him… then some more dancing… 
Just make sure you don’t pose a threat to the cop in the process. Because, if he draws his firearm, you are going to have to run hundreds of feet per second in order to out run the bullet.
And not even Charlie can help you get that fast.LOL
James