Not really, last winter my training partner and I were running them in approx. 90% quite comfortably. In trainers on grass we were running 3x300m in 37-38 seconds with 100m walk between the reps.
You have to build up to this type of session though, and it seems like no one here is willing to take their time to get there. Every body seems to be wanting to run fast right now and are unwilling to take the journey that is necessary to get there. What is the point of “use it while you got it” sessions, Why start a set of 300’s in 37 if you’re going to blow up and finish off 15% slower? Aim for consistency. Learn to sprint under fatigue. Aim to develop your lactate threshold little by little and you’ll actually find that you make greater improvements than if you are shooting for great gains.
After reviewing this thread it is very clear that you have done some monster sessions! (ie 4300 w/10 minutes rest, all around 33, 3300 in 37-38 with 100m walk between reps, 1*350 in 39 with no lactic buildup). This may be asking a lot, but can you be more specific with how you progressed to these type of session over the years, and what type of session you would reccomend for younger athletes who are looking to achieve such lactic tolerance?
I’d like to, however my back ground means that it may be slightly skewed since I started this type of training at a young age.
The most important thing is consistency. Make sure you can complete the session and the week with it. Consistency enables you to form a platform from which to start to progress from - and monitor that progression from (The best way to illustrate this is to refer to the MJ thread, take a look at where he starts off in the season: 5x350m in 52 seconds with 5 minutes or so recoveries (thats 44.5 second 300m pace), gradually working his way down to 4x350m in 46 seconds (still only 39.5 for the 300), with 3 minutes, then 3x350 in 44, 2x350 in 42ish and faster.).
In 2001 (which saw a 1 second drop in my 400m pb and a .8 drop over 200m), I did a similar thing with 300’s but with a slightly different method of progression, I started off running 5x300m with 5 minutes recovery in 42 seconds, which was pretty easy. A week later I ran the last 2 reps in 38 seconds, and a few weeks later progressed down to all 5 being bellow, 39 seconds. From here we cut a rep, and the times down to under 38 seconds, later we moved the recoveries out slightly (in retrospect im not sure if this was the best move) to 8 minutes and ended up doing a session of 3x300m in 36,35,33. A couple of months later I joined in a session with some other athletes who were running 3x350 with 12 minutes r/r in 42-43. I ran 41,40,39 (I must admit I got lactic on the third rep)
As well as getting me into great shape, this type of training had an enormous positive impact on my confidence. Being able to see how much I was progressing and how well I was recovering from these sessions.
At the same time we were also running over distance type work, sand dunes, 150’s and 200’s in a similar progression pattern. We didn’t just do it through one means.
That is a very, very good example of a good workout progression for a long sprinter. That’s the type of base that a 45/400, 20/200 sprinter should/would do. Good stuff
Overdistance, anyone? I’ve only seen one mention of any workout with reps over 400m. I think that more 600’s and 650’s (even a couple 800’s) would do a sprinter a lot of good. What i perfer to the longer reps, however, is to break them up so that I can get (partially) the aerobic benefit from running 800/600, non stop but I also get some of that nasty gut hurt you get from serious anerobic training.
Example:
300m mile pace (easy but fast), 50m walk, 150m 85-90% 400 pace, jog 150m, start next set.
Theoretically, this type of interval is good because you never stop moving, and there is a lot of room for flexability. At the begining of the year I did this workout walking the 150m rest period, and now I’m doing it at a pretty good jog.
(Mine’s a bit diff, though 400mile pace+50walk+200m @ 83% 400 or @ 800 pace+150r)
But my main point is that there is almost NO overdistance in what I’m seeing in your programs. I know it’s usually the first thing to get tapered to pieces come your big meets, but it is, IMHO, an extremely powerful tool for the 400 runner.
You’re right, over distance work should never be neglected, and is great aerobically and anaerobically - which one is emphasized depends on what part of the season you’re in and what kind of shape you’re in.
All I’ve given are examples regarding particular distances. Last off season we were doing sessions such as 4x600m, the first time we started it we ran each rep between 95 and 98 seconds with 600m walk recovery, six weeks or so later they were being run in under 90 seconds with 400m walk between (All on grass in joggers).
They guys who run 1’s and 2’s also got alot of benefit out of 350’s and 400’s.
I notice you mention something about progression in the goal times for each session. I also have my athletes progress (as I’m sure everyone does) as the season goes on. However, their goal times during workouts only progress as their times during the season progress. For example, lets say an athlete runs 47.00 in his first meet of the season. The goal times for his workouts will be based off of the 47.00 400 time he ran. Also, lets say that for the next 4-5 weeks, that time did not improve. Well I would not change his goal times for training sessions until he improves on that 400 time (I think I am describing this the right way). This is the first year I’ve done this, with mixed opinions of it. What is everyone’s thoughts on this method of training progression?
I’m not sure if an early race time is always an adequate enough indicator of shape. If an athlete is in great shape but they run the race with a poor strategy, or don’t execute technically well then you’re going to get a poor performance. Nor does it necessarily reflect how they can perform during a given work out. Also during the training season you don’t have races to indicate where an athletes at - I think the work outs themselves are probably the best indicator for progression.
