Why isn’t the calf utilized in sprinting

would strengthening the calves improve sprint times?

If you was too take advice on deadlifting, who would you take it from; Mike Westerdal or Andy Bolton?.

There would be no point in me deadlifting once every 2 weeks, I would never adapt.

Would I risk over training; deadlifting 50Kg’s?.

Arguably the most important muscle used in sprinting, by some.

how can you say calves are one of the most used muscles in sprinting? They aren’t even heavily used when jumping! As kelly baggett put it: Try doing a vertical jump without bending your knees and just using your calf strength. how high did you get? 2-3 inches? So, do they play a role in sprinting? Yeah, i’d say about 5% of power output comes from the calves. thus, as charlie would also reiterate- sprint work and plyometrics are enough calf work.

But, some people still have shin splints etc, so I say, yeah, you’re calves are too weak to handle the pounding and intense sprint training-- so do some calf raises to strengthen them.

who does deadlifts with 50kg? my mom?

suggest no:9 should be blue

How can I say that?. Because the diagram I just shown you states that, regardless of %.

Point being made; Deadlifting doesn’t need to relate too CNS fatigue.

Why would we perform calf raises to strengthen the calves causing an even further muscles-strength imbalance between calf-shin muscles?.

It is often consequence of tight calf muscles permanently stressing the shin muscle that causes shin splints.

The calf is the strongest muscle, it is the only one that can lift your bodyweight 50+ times untrained. I agree plyos is the way to go to train them. I disagree that strengthening the calf will help shin splints as it is primarily the muscle that rotates the tibia that gets fatigued not not the part that lifts the heel.

what is that diagram supposed to show? Sprinting involves the entire body. I know that the calf muscles are used, but I disagree on their importance. I said they weren’t utilized because IMO, there is no real need to train them (separately).

Kind of like biceps. They are on your diagram. But how much of a role do they really play?

I guess i needed to clarify. 3-5 sets of 3-5 reps on dead lift. Does this cause enough CNS fatigue to require 14 days rest? Seems excessive to me. 1x week sounds about right imo.-- but that would coexist with 2x week squats

Sprinting involves the entire body like you say. So basically everything is important.

I just downloaded the torrent for Andy Boltons DVD. I’m gonna stick to his template for getting stronger, especially in the deadlift.

Granted, he ain’t no sprinter, but in terms for developing strength in the hips, back & legs, not many can argue with his approach (guided by some of the top S&C coaches in the world).

My evaluation on the deadlift:

Someone on here made the statement: power output at the hip is 7 times greater at the hip than at the ankle. So lets assume that the power output at the knee is 3.5 times greater than the ankle.

A parallel squat would work the hips and knee joint equally. Thus recruiting and developing equal strength ratios of the quadriceps, hamstrings and hips, (BFS). This would lead me to believe that if parallel squatting was the only lift used, the hip and knee power output would both be 3.5 times that of the ankle. This has been observed in my own personal training as well as others.

In a deadlift, the hips are greater depended on compared to the knee joint. This is shown by the angle of the leg (about at 150 degrees, if 180 degrees was standing straight up). So, if one were to do only deadlifts, the knees would be at greater risk of non contact injuries in sprinting or other sports. This can be explained by the depth of the hips when deadlifting.

Therefore, deadlifting: the greater the risk, the greater the reward. Heavier weight = better reward. Squatting, less risk, less reward. If i was developing the hips at a perfect ratio to the knee, i could develop strength perfectly and healthy.

Leading me to believe that neither squatting or deadlifting can be considered more beneficial, but each have their place in a workout.

Please ask questions if this doesn’t make sense. It makes a LOT of sense in my head, but its hard to put down in type :slight_smile:

So, have we come to a decision to which variation of the DL is best for sprinting? or not?.

Look at this one - wide sumo stance Stiff-Legged Deadlift.

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Feelin’ it?. I don’t think Number Two is. :smiley:

Why do you say you would never adapt training once every 2 weeks on deadlifts? I know lots of really good powerlifters who only do them every 14 days as it pushes CNS pretty hard not to mention higher than average injury potential? Just curious.

IMHO, deadlifts are not a panacea for sprinters. If you use enough weight to actually have any impact on hip strength, they become to stressful overall and something will suffer, either in the gym, on the track, or both. Most powerlifters don’t deadlift twice per week, many don’t dead more than once every 14 days, and out a ways from comp they may drop it altogether to give the body a chance to recover or to make improvements in the squat.

If you have to deadlift, do rack deadlifts, or RDLs. I don’t count SLDL as it is a much different lift. I like box squats, RDLs, SLDLs and good mornings better than deads for a sprinter. Just my personal opinion.

Right, but powerlifters don’t make good runners/athletes, in the purest form.

From your own personal experience, what gains did you make in the lift from day 1 to when you went back to the barbell at day 14?.

Obviously you throw in other lifts/exercises through the week, which some can be just as CNS draining depending on experience, load, efficiency built up in the movement etc.

Once you become efficient in a movement doesn’t the CNS only take 1-2 days rest (good sleep to recover anyway)?.

Interestingly, the most draining exercise I do is the L-sit & that is an extreme core bodyweight only exercise, not performing 1RM deadlifts.

If Ben Johnson aimed for a 600lb squat (brilliant for a sprinter) that is gonna burden the CNS massively over years of training, squat workout in, squat workout out?. How many times was Ben working the squat rack per 14 days?. Once, twice, three times?.

But I need to build-up to a 600lb squat or deadlift (squats do very little for glute development BTW), isn’t my CNS going to suffer aiming for this poundage?. And does it only take 2 days to fully recover, particularly for a experienced lifter that has built up good efficiency?.

SLDLs definitely for hams/hip extension function.

What about snatch grip deads for overall hip development?. Do you know any cons to that lift?.

whenever i squat the only muscles i have seen significant growth in and are sore the next day are my glutes…

I’m not sure why you need to do a 600lb. squat, because been did? And wide box squats will definitely hit your glutes harder than deadlifts. If you want a big squat, then squat big.

SLDLs definitely for hams/hip extension function.

What about snatch grip deads for overall hip development?. Do you know any cons to that lift?.
Any full dead from the floor is going to be harder on you than box squats, and probably less effective for what you trying to accomplish. Stick to various squats, rack deadlifts, RDLs, SLDLs, goodmornings, and if you feel you’re still not hitting your glutes, pick one of Brett’s exercises and knock yourself out.

Come to think of it, I can’t think of a single sub-10 guy now that does DL.

They used to have a couple of good sprinters at Arkansas. One guy, J-Mee Samuels wrote on Trackshark that he was doing something like 360 bench and 450 squats in high school. The other guy, Tyson Gay, as a professional was doing 225 ATG squats, according to PJ.

You have to be strong enough, but only strong enough. I know which of those two guys I’d rather be.

if your glutes are sore, they’re probably comparably weak.

if they aren’t, then they probably aren’t.

(Assuming technique is a constant)