In the new issue of Track and Field News, Minnesota coach Phil Lundin is quoted as saying that (NCAA 400m champ) Adam Steele “can’t even break 3-flat in the 30m fly”. To put that in perspective, he almost certainly cannot break 11.0 for 100m without a max velocity of at least 10m/sec. Will someone please explain to me how it is possible to run 44.57 without even having 11.0 speed??
Furthermore, if he can’t break 3.0 for a flying 30m then he definitely can’t mess with 10.0 for a flying 100m… yet when you adjust for the set start, he’s averaging better than 11.0 for 4 consecutive flying 100’s!!! It’s bullshit I tell you!!!
Training times have little bearing on real world performances in this sense. I’ve never broken 10.8m/s on a laser velocity test but managed to average 11m/s for a 50m segment around the bend of a 200.
For me, it’s possible.
French NR holder Marc Raquil, 44.80 this year, is still running after 21.00 barrier! He is clearly unable to run under 21.00 consistently, he ran 21.31 (w-1.5m/) 6 days before his 44.80.
3 weeks later, he won the European Cup in 44.88, and his split times were:
11.4 + 10.5 + 11.3 + 11.7
11.4, 21.9, 33.2, 44.9
Steele and Raquil have a great specific endurance, but their lack of basic speed will prevent them to reach higher level. It’s clear that their progression at 400m will depend on their 200m speed development, in order to get more speed reserve.
Guys steele went out in 21.3 en route to his 44. I have it on tape.
So of course he can run 3.0 for a flying 30. i run 3.0-3.1 for my flying 30’s and i run 10.6 and 21.2 hand time.
if he can go out in 21.3 he can certainly run faster in an open 200,
think about it 21.3 and 23. Didnt Michael Johnson run simlar splits.
21.0 31.2?
Testing time and unloading are major factors…add in weight work and the story is much different. Much different.
Yeah, I knew it… ain’t no way you can run sub-45 without sub-11 speed.
Its possible but highly unikely. If you can run 22 and 22.
But the thing is if you can go out in 22 and come back in 22 i am certain that you can run at LEASTTTTT a 10.9 in an open 100.
This doesn’t allow for the speed reserve that is almost certainly present. John Smith once ran a negative split WR 44.5 for 440 yards (22.3/22.2) though he certainly had plenty of speed (20.5 220 yards on a slow track- defeating all of America’s fastest 200m men at the time)
Charlie,
so what are you saying… that he must certainly has to be able to break 11 in the 100?
John was 9.4 100y (10.2 or 10.3 100m ht)
Dan Steele’s splits at NCAA were @ as follows 11.0-10.7 (21.7)-10.9 (32.6)-11.7 (44.57)
Mitch Potter’s were @ as follows 10.9-10.4 (21.3)-10.8 (32.1)- 12.2 (44.58)
Obviosuly both ran very balanced races, but Potter might have won is he could have held back a little more in the 2nd and/or 3rd 100m. Also that track very fast and conditions were optimal for these two (ie: warm, but not extremely so).
For what they are worth Potter posted many of his spring workouts over at TrackShark. What is facsintating are the hill sessions. They are are very intense and were done deep into the competitive season. Potter does say that he lifted weights in the spring in these journals, but in the T+FN article he claims he hasn’t lifted since Christmas break, so as with any “How they Train” type stuff, it needs to be viewed with some skepticism.
By reputation, Phil Lundin is a very sharp coach. He did have previous All-American in 400m a few years back by the name of Gerding. He has built these two into world-class athletes, which to my view is possible and very often the case with MALE 400m runners. Potter was a mid37sec 300m hurdler, and ran mostly the 800m in high school.
Also the “can’t run under 3.0 in a fly 30m” has to be pure hyperbole; Steele ran 21.12 for 200m. In the same race Potter ran 20.96. Remember , spring conditions in Minn. are not very conducive to fast sprinting. Steele also ran 1:18.94 for 600m indoors in '03.
Charlie is absolutely corret regarding John Smith’s splits for his world record run. Other notable balanced races that come to mind are the late Mike Larrabee’s in which he was 7th at the 200m and came very close to running negative splits, if memory serves, and Markin in the 1980 Games in which in purportedly covered the final 100m in 10.6.
I just realized that the fellow’s name is Adam Steele. We really should change the name of the thread (if that’s possible).
AthleticsCoach,
good post. that cleared some things up…
and sorry guys the 21.3 split i got was for potter i must have got the splits mixed up when i wrote them down. Anyhow 21.7 still fast. As we say the clock never lies.
As far as getting mr.steeles name right?! i cant belive we did not catch that. lol.
Just goes to show we look real deep, sometimes too deep into things. But anyhow i like how this thread is going. Keep it up.
I was wondering about David Steele’s name, thought that was weird. As someone who lived in Minnesota for ten years, I have tons of pride for Steele and Potter, some Gopher love finally. Whatever Steele’s coach did, he must have done a good job, hills or whatever. Steele ran a 48_in high school, so he has taken four seconds off. Does anyone know what year in college he is?
Originally posted by AthleticsCoach
Remember , spring conditions in Minn. are not very conducive to fast sprinting. [/b]
Exactly. This does raise a good point in that many training programs have to evolve to suit their environment.
In Sydney, we can train year round on an outdoor track. Other countries may be limited to indoor work throughout winter, this would suit short to long programs nicely. If indoor facilities are not suitable then in the case that outdoor sessions are done, they would have to adjust intensity accordingly thus leading more to long to short via necessity.
Its a very important part planning. You can design the worlds greatest program but if your environment conspires against you, the program is worth nothing.
Wow there are lot of typos in my post!
Steele was an 800m guy who also ran 47.8 in high school according to the T+FN article. He said the fastest workout that he in did before getting U of to Minn. 8x200m. This sounds way too much like your typical high school program, but then again, there is the weather and I doubt that they had an indoor facility. So one can see why he has improved at the Univ. level. By the look of the picture in T+FN, he certainly does his share of upper body weights.
As I remember it, the U of Minn. has a pretty good indoor facility, so training in the winter shouldn’t be too badly effected. I have no idea whether they take a short to long approach or not, but I’m very curious.
My guess is that if they had the chance to run a 200m in Sacramento the same night as the 400m final, Potter would have gone 20.7FAT and Steele would have gone 20.9FAT. This means that they are still running the 1st 200m less than 1sec. slower than their projected 200 p.b. Hence, it’s fait to say that they have highly developed specific endurance.
Both Mitch Potter and Adam Steele are juniors at Minnesota.
Steele had a HS PR’s of 47.66 and 1:55.4.
Potter had HS PR’s of 14.5 in the 110H and 37.29 in the 300H.
As a tune up for the Pan-Am games, they ran a low key meet last weekend.
Both ran 48.2s coming through the 200 in 23.5 then holding that pace until 250 meters before accelerating for 50 meters then shutting it down. About 20 minutes later they ran a couple of 150s in 16.4.
Nice guys.
I’m sorry about Adam Steele’s name… I tried to change it, but it doesn’t seem to work. I don’t know why I thought his first name was Dan!
I think Steele would be a murderer at 800m… 1:55 my ass! He should be running 1:45!