Conjugated training applied to team sports

Expert Discussion Strength Training
81

It is interesting to read Power’s thread on excluding aerobic conditioning for rugby. From a personal view point I feel that to be successful in any interval sport, rugby/NFL/ice hockey etc you need to have a solid base of general conditioning. The way that rugby is developing (both codes) it is transforming into a Power Endurance sport. You may think that this term is condradictory in nature, however, if you analyse the sport each player is required to complete repeated bouts of high intensity efforts and given that rugby lasts for 80-90 minutes (depending on stoppage time) it therefore requires a level of aerobic conditioning.

Of course it will also depend on what type of game plan the team adheres to. If the team is a large physical side, they will rely more on brute strength and absolute power to subdue the opposition. If on the other hand the team players a a relatively high tempo with great width all of those players will require a high VOz max. Of course one must not dwell too much on aerobic conditioning for team sports, but must remember that it forms the base for all recovery and is the underlying factor in any type of sport.

Hopefully this thread will have presented a better view of why certain people advocate aerobic conditioning and others anaerobic.

I would be interested to learn more about Power’s reasons for limiting aerobic conditioning for rugby.

82

Although a game lasts for 80 min the ball is actually in play for approx 30 min. Rugby, is a high intensity intermittent sport and therefore reliant on anaerobic metabolism. Yes players may cover 5K in a game but if they can’t walk that distance in 80 min they are in trouble.

83

Very nice discussion going on here…
… from conjugate to aerobic/anaerobic discussion :slight_smile:
As I stated before, I dont believe anymore in aerobic/anaerobic classification!!! Things are a lot complex than that! Noakes et al showed that there is a large aerobic component in Wingate anaerobic test, for example.
After all, if you start jogging just now, it is anaerobic activity, but after the system reaches “stabile state” it becomes aerobic activity.
Who is more interested, please take I look at the links I have posted! This is a time very well spent…
Anyway, you can sue me but soccer, basketball, rugby and other HIIE sports are very dependent on aerobic conditioning (DO NOT READ THIS AS VO2MAX!!!)
When you start sprinting or HI drible, you use primarly ATP/CP, but after this finishes ATP/CP should resintensized (homoeostasis should be returned to normal). If the activity last long (>8sec) or the rest is too short (or aerobic development is poor, not optimal), there is a tendency to use oxygen independent sources which finaly result in LA and H+ accumulation which leads to fatigue (this could be discussed even further, but for now I will keep this oversimplification of cardiovascular/anaerbic model). To prevent this for happening, aerobic preparedness should be optimal! But, I must dissapoint you - aerobic preparedness for HIIE sports SHOULD NOT be considered as VO2max value nor OBLA!!!
Aerobic preparedness for HIIE sports include peripheral, central and CNS (homoeostasis controler) adaptations. Peripheral includes capilarization of muscle cell, thus increasing blood floow and metabolite removal. Also, there is an increse in number and size of mitochondria and their enzymes. Capilarization may prevent form injury, because larger blood flow keeps muscle warm! There should not be too much of peripheral adaptations, because of muslce fibers transformation from fast to slow!
Central adaptations include greater minute volume of the heart, but I belive that this adaptation is not so important in HIIE because, there is not so much time for the heart to increase its output, and I belive that peripheral adaptation is more important!
THE MOST IMPORTANT adaptation is CNS (homoeostasis controler) adaptation! This controler controls the blood redistibution, capilar opening, heart, lungs, kidneys etc. When power stated that neural adaptation is important for RSA, he didnt know how much he was right!
Anyway, improving aerobic preparedness for HIIE sports DOES NOT mean long slow distance running, but rather adaptations in periphery and CNS! To induce periphery changes, intensity should be above OBLA, and to induce CNS (autonomic) changes, the activity should be simmilar to HIIE sport - intermitent! Intermitent activity like tempo running or shuttles (<75%), forces CNS to “search faster for steady state”, reducing inertia of heart and other functional systems! Also, this type of training prepares athletes for starts and stops, and gretar hip movement!
So, to conclude: aerobic preparedness for HIIE sport is not VO2max nor OBLA, but rather RSA! RSA is best developed using intermitent activities with medium intensity (<75%) and with prolonged duration (20-60sec)! Also, RSA can be developed by simulation work/rest ratios of sport, but this is considered as HI and should be used into consideration when planning training!
The thing that confuses me is that power stated that weigth circuits improve RSA! I dont know the mechanism for this, but I belive that this type of training induces peripheral adaptations in muscles, and mayby CNS (neural) changes… On my opinion I would stick to tempos and shutlles, and latter in the prep period I would use simulation of work/rest with sprints and side shuffles… also I would use weigth circuits to improve work capacity for the gym and maybe for some variety! I am open to new possibilities!

More on this topic can be found in AEROBIC DEVELOPMENT FOR BASKETBALL and HOMOEOSTASIS PERFORMANCE MODEL thread!

84

What is RSA?
and is obla “onset blood lactate”?
Can you please go into more detail about…
This controler controls the blood redistibution, capilar opening, heart, lungs, kidneys etc. " as well.
Everyone great posts.
Dux good job summing everything up.

85

You’ve got the man to ask in your uni, I believe! :wink:

86

:slight_smile: I graduated last year and I am now the Asst. Strength and Speed Coach for all teams at Stevens Institute of Technology as well as the Sprints Coach. Also I’m assuming you mean JD. and last year was his last year. He is now in Cali or somewhere out west. I cant remember what he is doing. But this time he is gone for good.

87

Hi quick,
we explained RSA in the last page of this thread… but I will explain it again:
RSA is Repeated Sprint Ability, or the ability to repeat sprints (HIIE- High Intensity Intermitent Exercises) withoud loosing speed, quickness etc. It is crucial for game sports.
It is suggested that aerobic capacity (mostly measured with VO2max) improves RSA. Some researches found this to be true (McMillan, 2005) and a large number did not (see Scott Vass final paper).
The concept of VO2max and OBLA (anaerobic threshold) is now questioned (see Noakes work), and I believe that some new reasearch should try to find cnnections with RSA and with aerobic capacity mostly measured with some other variables (Vmax, Tlim, time to steady state, shuttle run test etc), but I didnt find any… Maybe I should try to propose one at my faculty :slight_smile:

Sorry, but I dont have a scientific proof for this, it is my own belief! After all, power states that he improved RSA with weight circuits… Dont know what factor in his training improved RSA, and what factors improv RSA, but weight circuits seems unlikely to me, to be the sole reason for this imporvements… Bu I will keep open minded!

  • McMillan et al (2005). Physiological adaptations to soccer specific endurance training in professional youth soccer players. Br J Sports Med 2005;39:273-277.
88

I have made a mistake in my last posts: SPrinterogue, not power, stated that improved NEURAL work capacity (whatever that means) is linked to improved RSA. Sprinterogue, can you please expand more on this? How did you find the correlation and how do you define neural work capacity?
I believe that weight circuits increase bLA, and that neural adapatations might be an ability to tolerate those bLA? But HIIE sports dont lead to increased bLA (I have studies showing this for bb), so some other adaptation may transfer this to RSA - capilariyation etc…
Opinions?

89

If you have time, please take a look at
http://www.charliefrancis.com/community/showthread.php?t=11426
Basically, this controler is hypotalamus, controling function of your functional organs (kidneys, heart etc…). When you start running, who redistribute your blood, increase HR, breething, sweting, etc? It is this controler that is responsible for this actions… If it is faster, thus minimizing inertial of CV system and decreasing time to “steady state”, it can improve faster resinthesis of ATP/CP in HIIE sports… So my conclusion is that aerobic development for HIIE sports should mimic intermitent nature of the sport with some change of direction and greater hip movement (striding)!!! For this reason I found tempos and shuttles and some poligons to be most effective reaching this goal of training the speed of homoeostasis controler to act more faster and increasing the RSA!
Steady state running can have purpose but it DOES NOT stimulate this controler to “rush to find stabilte state, to act faster” which is crucial for HIIE sport! Over years we overephasised CV system and we forget about CNS controling it… But now things become little different (thank God!) :slight_smile:

90

Duxx,

Circuits can increase overall work capacity, but I wrote “gym work” and specifically I was referring to high sets, low reps, kind of work, which increases the ability of the nervous system to express high level of force for a high number of times (similar to RSA).

In my experience, such gym work paired with a fair volume of short sprint on the track increase the CNS work capacity.

RSA training alone can decrease maximum strength up to 50% when the CNS work capacity is low (and that’s what you normally see with people following the HIT principles).

91

Hi sprinterogue,
not to attack you but, what is overall work capacity and how it relates to RSA and HIIE performance?
Interesting idea about “high reps, low reps, kind of work”… I belive that the work duration (TUT) should be aproximatelly 4-30sec? And rest should be 15-30sec? Simulating game work/rest ratio? Interesting idea… Very interesting… but not specific to running, and for this same reason I would put in in OFF season or in early GPP… Thanks!

92

Duxx,

I never stated that “overall work capacity” influences directly RSA or HIIE. But neural work capacity will.

Also, I wrote high SETS, low reps, i.e. the neural correspondent of the (metabolic) alactic capacity work. And you don’t need to go so specific with TUT and RI; in fact the TUT should be completely alactic per se taking into consideration the neural effect we are after.

93

My players constantly do PB’s throughout the season on the Olympic and power lifts. The reason i’m saying this is because that’s our aim as a team is to keep physically improving i’m not into a maintenance phase that’s bullshit in my opinion you either get better or worse you never stay the same!

After 3 weeks of working at improving our work capacity we went back to Olympic Lifts this week and everyone hit a PB.

This thread has been interesting because I feel so many of you make strength & conditioning so difficult I’m a simple guy who get’s results because I keep to FUNDAMENTALS.

94

The brother speaks the truth, take a few days off- hell make it a week, come back rested and hit it hard, make gains, improve and reach a new goal. Why maintain? Maintenance phase, that’s a given mental and intensity time out for your team…Sure, some of you can’t help yourself to researching and over thinking every rep set wgt% time rest ratio 2 day hot cold shower 30 sec. no make that ice bath carbs must be after, plyo tempo dynamic speed work ass wipe session or else…it’s all good, keep the reading interesting, thank you power

95

Duxx,
I never stated that “overall work capacity” influences directly RSA or HIIE. But neural work capacity will.

Also, I wrote high SETS, low reps, i.e. the neural correspondent of the (metabolic) alactic capacity work. And you don’t need to go so specific with TUT and RI; in fact the TUT should be completely alactic per se taking into consideration the neural effect we are after.

Sorry, typing error! I was thinking on high SETS, low REPS!

rpower, power,
We should stick to KISS (Keep It Simple Simon) principle, but some things should be debated/discussed! There is a lot of ways to skin a cat, and your is just one of them!
Regarding maintenance, you are right and wrong! Improvement should be on field, and the gym should only facilitate that improvements. So, if there is too much of specific/practice stress, then I would lower the gym work to allow progression where it counts the most! If there is a large reserve of adaptation energy then I will screw the maintenance and hit it hard…

96

Hi There
Who publishes this book you recommend?

97

A maintenance “phase” is never everything. It’s when one componant is not emphasized (while avoiding significant losses by keeping enough stimulus) so that another can advance due to the additional physical resources freed up.
This is done all the time in the weekly schedule. It’s just an extention of the timing. As you say, too long and you’re down the drain, but just right and you move past plateaus.

98

reopening a past thread…power, how do you pair coniugate training and speed development?

99

During the “pause” period in this thread I researched more the RSA (repeated sprint ability), and I found the folowing article: The Effects of Strength (Resistance) Training on Repeated Sprint Ability and Muscle Buffer Capacity

The research found that VO2max have medium correlation with RSA tests (10x40m, 5x6sec, Bangsbo sprint test etc), but the research found betam (buffering capacity expressed of a muscle expressed something like deltabLA/deltapH ) to have great correlation with power-decrement in RSA tests…

Some authors (Weston) have suggested that accumulation of H+ is important in developing muscle buffer capacity, but does this means that to improve betam and as a result of that RSA, athletes should do the speed/special endurance work (lactate capacity)?

Aziz (Journal of Applied Sports Sciences 16: 14-22, 2004) found very low correlation with Wingate test with RSA test. Wingate test is used to assess anaerobic capacity. Wadley & La Rossignol (J Sci Med Sport. 1998 Jun;1(2):100-10.) stated: “the results indicate that the best 20 m sprint time was the only factor to correlate significantly with total sprinting time (r = 0.829, P < 0.001) and percentage decrement (r = -0.722, P < 0.01). VO2 max and AOD [Accumulated Oxygen Dept] were not related to the total sprinting time or the percentage decrement that was produced by the RSA test. This was interpreted to signify that the phosphagen system was the major energy contributor for this test”
According to this two studies training to improve oxygen-independent glycolysis (20-40 almost maximal effort) (altought we are talking about cross study) will not improve RSA. Not that Bangsbo uses “speed endurance training” both “producing” and “maintenance” type, will small yearly volume, to increase match run distance in elite-soccer players (source: Fitness training for soccer).

Also, speed endurance training (both production and maintenance training) will interfere with speed training. So maybe another training type should allow increase in buffering capacity without interfering with speed training.
Edge et al (Med Sci Sports Exerc. 2005 Nov;37(11):1975-82.) compared effects of cycling interval training (6-10, 2-min intervals at 120-140% LT) and continuous training (20-30 min at 80-95% LT) matched for total work, on VO2max, LT, RSA. Theri results and conclusions are the following: “RESULTS: Both groups had significant improvements in VO(2peak) (10-12%; P < 0.05) and LT (8-10%; P < 0.05), with no significant differences between them. Both groups also had significant increases in RSA total work (kJ) (P < 0.05), with a significantly greater increase following HIT than MIT (13 vs 8.5%, respectively; P < 0.05). There was a significant decrease in resting [ATP] and an increase in postexercise La(-) for both groups, but no significant differences between them. There were no significant changes in resting or postexercise [PCr], [Cr], muscle [La(-)], or [H(+)] after the training period. CONCLUSIONS: When total work is matched, HIT results in greater improvements in RSA than MIT. This results from an improved ability to maintain performance during consecutive sprints, which is not explained by differences in work done during the first sprint, aerobic fitness or metabolite accumulation at the end of the sprints”

So, according to the data presented here we could assume the following:

  • VO2max have small/medium correlation with RSA tests (both decrement and best result)
  • Betam have large correlation with RSA test (decrement)
  • To increase betam H+ should be increased
  • Speed endurance training (lactated production/toleration) increases H+ and thus increase betam (buffer capacity) but in the same time interfere with speed abilities and development, so it should be planned accordingnly and used only with elite players (Bangsbo)
  • To increase RSA training should be intermitent in nature. The effects of intermitent training compared to continuous may not be explained by VO2max increase, resting or postexercise P, LA, H+. I can only speculate that the Central Governor (Autonomic Nervous System) imporved its control over functional systems, as outlined in my previous post on this very issue.
  • Tempo can increase buffer capacity. The speed should not be faster than 75% of best time to avoid interfering with speed sessions. Rest should be progresivelly reduced as the athletes adapt
  • Specially designed strength training (large number of reps, short rest between sets) may improve buffer capacity and thus RSA. So, this may me the mechanism of power’s work capacity gym work on RSA. Note that the study from the begining was not conducted yet. I should ocntact the author and ask him about the results. Also, this kind of work may interfere with strength, speed and power development, but in the same time it will get rid of the body fat :smiley:

I hope I did’t missed the “thread”, becasue we were discussiong about work capacity in the gym transfer to the field (RSA).
I hope this bring us some answers but a lot of new questions…

100

Duxx…good stuff man…on that note, why don’t we take this post you just put up here and start that RSA thread???
Sound good or you have more you want to add to it?