Tnx for your answer Charlie!
Do you believe that lactic work in the gym (using cirlcles as power do) can “transfer” on the field (increase specific endurance)? I believe that this work can be done for “fat loss” programmes, but the quality of exercises must be high (which is very hard to maintain especially when you are fatigued), and I would rather use the most special exercises to develop “metabolic conditioning”… Then why shouldnt 400m runners sprint on steppers and bycicles for 40sec to developd bLA production and toleration? I really dislike this approach… because metabolic fitness is not some general ability, but should be rather put in some specific contents (context): if you are runner run, if your are wresteler wrestle, if you are boxer the box to develop “metabolic conditoning” and forget about weight circles till you puke…
Hi power,
What do you consider as “anaerobic conditioning”? What is the GOAL of this circles? How is this transfered to the field?
Power, you gave folowing time/motion analysis
From this analysis, I would conlude that for playing rugby you need SAQ and RSA (repetaed sprint ability) which is highly dependent on aerobic capacity… and from this I would conclude that there is no need nor for BLA production nor BLa toleration training, so why did you used that “weight circle” with that work/rest ratio? What is the goal of it?
Sorry for a larger number of questions, and sorry if you think that I wanted to “attack” you… Just want a good discussion here! Tnx 
Remember that the specific work is covered in season and that there is terrific general crossover of qualities if you understand the effect on the entire organism.
If you would like to read further on the whole general vs specific debate, you can get the first Forum Review e-book. There is a great discussion on central drive and organism strength there.
When you have the same group of players for 10 month’s of the year - Variety is as essential as speficity trust me. My whole program is generally devoted towards the development of POWER but what you will also find as our season is so long some player’s will actually become de-conditioned and anything I prescribed as I’ve said in previous postings is for one reason only and that is how he perform’s come game day.
It’s quite easy to be judgemental outside an environment which you don’t understand but you must understand there are so many variables to be considered.
The example that I give would have been for one of my players who had done a huge amount of strength and power work - but wasn’t getting much rugby so he undoubtedly needed a new stimulus. On the other hand if I feel a player is working his nuts off every week due to the intensity of the game a completetly different approach is taken but still variety is essential.
Tnx Charlie,
On my opinion specific work should be covered all the time (with different emphasis/volume) over a season… If you dont cover specific work (game pracitce) from day one you will not get sprinters nor power lifter nor players! I see too much programs emphasising sprint work during off and pre seasons and avoiding game practice due too much stress!!! All those recomending this approcah should come to Serbia to see what is a stress with 14yo baskeball players :eek:
I just got E-book, but I didnt manage to read it yet (faculty obligations).
So, Charlie you would recommend simmilar “metabolic” work to 400m runner like bycicle work and weigh circuits long way before comp season? I dont know if I got you here… Your answers are sometimes hard to digest, altought when I read them after a while they are pretty clear (but at this moment they are not )
Sorry power, I didnt wanted to sound judgemental, I am just curious…
Anyway, you didnt answered my quiestion: what is the goal of this weight circuits? Sorry, but variation is not a goal… it is a mean to achieve goal! It is not a goal to itself…
Power, you recomend those circuits to those players who dont engage into game practice too often? What about heavy sled work, tire flips, hog of war, sand bag work, wrestling? I would rather use them for “anaerobic conditioning” for rugby players, whatever that means…
Keep in mind that professional team sports, with long playing seasons and very short prep periods, and track are very different- almost opposite in fact.
Track has an extremely long prep period for a short comp period.
You can see my comments on the “Sport Specific” gurus on the Barry Ross thread.
I planned to print out that thread and read it thoroughly… tnx Charlie
This would be a LOWER BODY program that I would use for one of my fast twitch players who has been doing a lot of Olympic lifting:
A1 = T-BAR DEAD LIFTS 6 X 3-5
A2 = HURDLE BOUNDS 6 X 5
B1 = REVERSE HYPER 4 X 20
B2 = KETTLE BELL ROTATION 4 X 20
B3 = STRAIGHT LEG RAISES 4 X 20
I switch to the T - Bar dead lift as it also keeps the player very strong due to the neural mechanism associated with having a very stron grip.
[QUOTE=]Sorry power, I didnt wanted to sound judgemental, I am just curious…
Anyway, you didnt answered my quiestion: what is the goal of this weight circuits? Sorry, but variation is not a goal… it is a mean to achieve goal! It is not a goal to itself…
Power, you recomend those circuits to those players who dont engage into game practice too often? What about heavy sled work, tire flips, hog of war, sand bag work, wrestling? I would rather use them for “anaerobic conditioning” for rugby players, whatever that means…[/QUOTE]
The Goal is to increase work capacity and hypertrophy in players who have done an enormous amount of CNS work. It is essential to look at the program that I had used as an example and maybe even try it and you will see how effective it is at raising the 2 qualities mentioned (work capacity & hypertrphy).
I’ve been using tyre flipping, sled dragging, weighted carries, car pushing and just about any method you can think about for a number of years when the time is right to apply these conditioning methods. As I mentioned earlier variety is essential in a season which is so long.
What is also essential to understand in regards to your comments on tyre flipping and wrestling - rugby & rugby training in itself is obviously massively demanding in effect players wrestle for 10 months of the year every time they have a game or a practice session! So you have to be very carefull not to overtrain a mechanism which is already being trained quite significantly.
Also if you were to watch a scrummage session then trust me you will also see where you have to balance what these players can be given in term’s of conditioning. I’ve alway’s produced very powerfull players & teams - and it’s an art of knowing what to prescribe and what not to!
For those athletes who arn’t going to be doing the Olympic lifts I really like the Trap Bar deadlift. I feel atheltes can maintain a better posture while performing it and for those who will be learning to clean but at the moment are too weak to hold the start position it is a nice way of developing strength without learning incorrect mechanics. I have a heavy duty 35Kg bar from Watson Gym equipment and recommend them to people who want a home gym but don’t have room for a squat rack etc… You can get very very strong just using the deadlift. Though it may not be ideal all the time.
Power,
Variety is indeed VERY important in team sports with long competitive periods.
What pattern do you use to rotate the training means?
The pattern I use is dependent on the individual player and if he is playing week in week out.
But for example for one of my wingers who has clocked 4.76 for 40 meters and play’s every week in terms of weights programs I would normally follow 2 weeks based around Olympic lifts - 1 week based around strength training & 1 week of hypertrophy work. Still using the conjugated approach but with more emphasis on one area.
Tnx Power… this explains a lot!
I really dont want to question you with my “boring questions”, because things can easyly go to philosophical discussion, but I just got one “tiny” question…
(now you are going to hate me) What is working capacity? What do you consider by it?
It usually assumes VO2max in literature, but I highly doubt that you are reffering to that! If rugby is HIIE sport with 4sec HI and 34sec LI (dependent on position), then how does “working capacity” developed by circuits you proposed transfer to on filed working capacity? Seeing your plan-program in whole can solve a lot of dogma here… But thanks anyway, and sorry for such a stupid questions 
I learned I new thing today… thanks tc! But, ufortunally a lot of gyms here are not equiped with such an “exotic” equipmend (Trap bar, safety squat bar, and that curved bar…), but anyway we got a lot of leg extention/curl machines :mad: hehe
Simmilar approach I propesed in Fuzzy hypertrophy program (thread)… It is an example of CSS (conjugate sequence system) - you work all components (power, strength, hypertrophy, work capacity) but switching their emphasis during a mezocycle (or even more).
How do you unload them? What is the pattern (3+1, 4+1 etc) Tnx
Good job I got a day off today to answer your questions! When I used the work to rest ratio say for example a prop forward of 5 seconds high intensity and 35 seconds low intensity it doesn’t mean the prop has complete rest during that 35 seconds.
Here is an example of a period of play for a prop forward - Lift a 120 kg player up to arms length in a lineout then drive the line out for 5 seconds + then jog 40 meters , maybe hit a few rucks. Time out then go into scrum push has hard as you can for 5 + seconds then the ball can be in play for 60+ seconds and you might be involved in 3 phases of play where you cycle high & low intensity.
That’s a small example the prop will on average have 125 phases of high intensity activities during a 80 minute game. THAT’S WHY SOME POSITIONS MUST HAVE A HUGE WORK CAPACITY.
Tnx power, that cleared things a lot! Anyway, did you find a corelation (transfer) of increasing working capacity in the gym with working capacity at the field? Or do you use that weight circuit to develop only gym working capacity for later more strenuous work (in the gym)?
I am asking this because, according to your data, working capacity of a prop forward (ability to do a lot of HI/LI actions without loosing efficiency ans speed) is called RSA - repetaed sprint ability, and there are some studies showing (and some not showing) correlation with VO2max and aerobic capacity in general. I know I am boring, but on my opinion aerobic work (mainly tempo as defined by CF) and the work simmilar to work/rest ratio of a player position (the workout you have propsed in last post) are only things needed to develop RSA!
So to conclude, to develop RSA (ability to do a lot of HI actions interspread with LI work) you should develop aerobic capacity, mainly using:
- tempo runs
- training with simmilar work/rest ratio (HIIE)
I am interested how does your circuit fits in this equation! Did you find that your circuit increase working capacity at the field?
Again, sorry for number of question, I hope you understand my intention here… Not to judge you, but to learn from you… tnx again!
Anyway, I think that I will speak in the name of all us here, if I ask you to create some “article” regarding your training philosophy and planning, so that all things can come together…
Work capacity has both general and specific components. For example, RSA is very much linked to NEURAL work capacity, more so than aerobic capacity. For this reason, gym work might improve RSA even more than aerobic training, yet both training means are needed. To further express my point, paradoxically, depending on work/rest ratio, RSA could be elevated without any aerobic training.
Hooray !!!
Seanjos,
What I wrote doesn’t mean that gym training is a superior way for aerobic fitness, I just stated that it has a higher neural component than aerobic training thus can transfer to RSA more.
Also, when you can use a variety of training means, what was a preferred choice within a restricted number of means might likely become of much less utility.
Thanks for the answers! When (in season) do you do weight circuits? GPP, SPP, comp?
I found the following page, so maybe you are interested in taking a look
http://www.rugbycoach.com/free.htm