Composed last week but took me awhile to gain post access. Thanks Rupert!!
Good day all. Just discovered this site and realize there is a wealth of information here. I’ll search for some specific info but thought this question was specific enough to my situation to post.
A little introduction and background. 31 - male - 5’9" - approx 165lbs. I’m a recreational runner (30-35mi p/month) but have plans to do the RnR 1/2 marathon in AZ (1st time) and begin competing in track and field starting next year. No specific meets planned as of yet. I’ve been lifting fairly consistently for the last few years and right now I’m doing full body 3x week. During early '02 I entered a couple of all-comers track meets to see if the speed was still there.
Results: 100M - 11.22 200M - 23.9 LJ - 19’6" (I know I can do better). Didn’t run the 400M but it is a possibility for next year. Results from approx 4 weeks of sprint drills and repeat 100/200s. Had not participated in a track meet since '89.
Now for my questions. I’m planning to put a training schedule together for the 1/2 marathon beginning in late Oct. and will base it on one of the programs on runnersworld.com. What would be the best way to incorporate speed work (specific to t&f) into the training schedule? Or should I wait until after the 1/2 marathon to begin track specific drills?
Same questions for weights and plyometrics. I have another 4 weeks on my 3x week schedule and after that will probably return to a 3 day split (legs : chest shoulder tricep: deadlift back bicep). Have worked on technique with dumbell snatch, snatch, and cleans but haven’t fully incorporated them into my workouts but plan to. Not interested in bulk. Should I postpone or rethink this considering the 1/2 marathon training? Any general suggestions on where to add plyometrics?
I know there is a lot of jumble here but any responses or thoughts are welcome.
Since composing the original message I’ve done some reading and searching through the site. Haven’t been able to find the archives yet.
I’ve read Explosive Lifting for Sports by Harvey Newton, Serious Strength Training and Power Training for Sport by T. Bompa. Waiting on B&N to get me a copy of T. Bompa’s other book on periodization.
With respect to weights, I am definitely going to work on the snatch and the clean so I can incorporate them into my workout ASAP.
From the little I’ve read so far, doesn’t seem like a good idea to incorporate too much speed work while I’m adding mileage. Traditional distance thinking: increase distance or intensity, not both at the same time.
In the preliminary schedule I’ve but together the only thing that resembles speed work is repeat hills and repeat 400s. The hill I have in mind is 400m. Build from 4 to 6 repeats (90sec w/2:30 active rest)over six weeks. Then switch to the qtrs. Build from 6 to 10 @ 5K pace (6:31p/mi) w/2-3min active rest over 4 weeks.
As I read through the posts I see lots of terms like tempo, SE, SE 2, etc. I know this is covered in CFTS and I know it comes highly recommended. Are there other books that have the same nomeclature so I can figure out what everyone is talking about?
Open to all suggestions on incorporate speed into the 1/2 marathon schedule. Ohyeah, the only goal for the 1/2 is to finish. If I had to guess a time, I’d say something between 1:45 -1:55.
The distance training you do for the 1/2 marathon will negatively impact your ability to sprint. Athletes who train for marathons become less explosive (vertical jump height decreases) as a result of adapting to the specific aerobic demands of distance running. Trying to train for both a marathon and the sprints at the same time means that you wil not reach your potential in either.
My advice: drop the idea of running the marathon and focus on sprinting.
The 100m was hand timed. Not incredibly fast but I was pleased. I wasn’t a 100m runner is HS and I think my PR was 11.1.
Do you have a particular reason for wanting to run the half marathon or just for fun?
Cheers,
Chris
1/2 marathon is just something to do. New goal; new experience. I’ve done 5 and 10k’s along with a couple of duathlons and triathlons.
The generic 1/2 marathon plans goes something like this with progression week to week.
Sunday: Long slow day(LSD) 60min to 110min
Mon: Rest
Tues: EZ run
Wed: Hill repeats or 400m repeats
Th: EZ run
Fri: Rest
Sat: Tempo (2x10min @10k pace) or Fartlek
Since my goal is just to finish the 1/2 marathon in a decent time (sub 2hr) which workout(s) could I change to incorporate some speed work? The LSD is mandatory. Open to other suggestions on tempo days or EZ/rest days.
Any masters or sub-masters (<35) around here?
Based on poundages thrown around on the forums and in articles, I also need to re-think/develop a strenth plan. Particularly max strength.
maurice
As I read through the posts I see lots of terms like tempo, SE, SE 2, etc. I know this is covered in CFTS and I know it comes highly recommended. Are there other books that have the same nomeclature so I can figure out what everyone is talking about?
I have come at this from the other direction - road runner trying some track races. I am twice the age and half the speed of most of the guys here, but here are my thoughts.
I can combine distance running (5K to 10Miles) with track distances down to 800m by adding in race pace specific sessions. Just switched some 45 min runs to things like 300 reps at 800 pace, 800 reps at 3000m pace and so on.
But could not improve my horrificly slow 400m time without a major switch from endurance to speed.
Once I did that my ability over 10M declined - so I am with the guys here that say you can`t combine sprinting (400m or less) with a 1/2m.
If you switch to 1/2m training of the Runners World type you will lose a lot of sprint speed.
My suggestions, assuming you can train around 5 times per week.
LSD for 70 mins + once a week.
2 other steady pace runs of around 50 mins.
1 session per week of tempo runs (sprinting type tempo runs, not endurance type threshold sessions). If you get these right you will retain some fast running speed and style and get an aerobic benefit.
1 session of whatever you do for pure speed work.
Forget the weights for a few weeks. Use your time on running.
To run a good 1/2m you need 5 x aerobic sessions per week and at least 40 miles per week. But the above will get you around without killing your speed background.
I understand not being able to perform maximally(?) in both. The goal is to complete the 1/2, not run a PR. As for the sprinting, I haven’t done any psuedo sprinting since the above mentioned meets in '02. High knees, skips, butt kicks, repeat 200s and a couple of pyramids. Even after the 1/2 in Jan I should have time to make improvements for meets after April. No??
1 session per week of tempo runs (sprinting type tempo runs, not endurance type threshold sessions). If you get these right you will retain some fast running speed and style and get an aerobic benefit.
1 session of whatever you do for pure speed work.
Still trying to get an idea of what ‘tempo’ is with regard to speed workouts. Haven’t purchased CFTS but would like recommendations for other readily available text that will give good info/definitions of various phases and types of workouts. Anyone???
Forget the weights for a few weeks. Use your time on running.
Why would I want to forget the weights? The 1/2 isn’t until January and I don’t have any idea on t&f meets but i’m assuming spring. Wouldn’t this be a good time to put together some type of periodized strength program? I’m stronger now than I was in HS, but still ‘strong’. Bench 220lbs - Squat 315lbs - DL 260lbs - No OL #'s
If you just want to get around the 1/2m (not perform maximally) you don`t need a lot of continous runs, so I guess 3 steady runs per week should be ok. The other 2 sessions are what should keep you in touch with speed. Tempo should help both aerobic fitness and sprinting endurance. The fact you have done 5k/10k and sound generally healthy suggests to me you could easily get under 2 hours.
What were your 5/10k times by the way ? I will try and estimate your 1/2m potential.
For tempo runs, there are a lot of good posts here from real sprinters - check them out. They seem to be based on 100-400m efforts at 75% effort from what I have seen.
My only hesitation on weights is having enough time - if you can manage 3 runs per week to work on 1/2m endurance and 2 per week for sprinting and still have time to spare then go for it.
These times go back a ways but lifetime PRs: 1500m 5:10 - 5k 20:20 - 10k - 51:33. I couldn’t duplicate any of these now but use them to plan my distance-type tempo and interval sessions.
Tempo runs - I’ve read lots of posts about tempo, SE1, SE2, acc. devl(?) but until I can get my hands on a book or good website that actually explains these terms and how they fit into the GPP sPP etc plan, its all Greek to me.
…if you can manage 3 runs per week to work on 1/2m endurance and 2 per week for sprinting and still have time to spare…
Not working at the moment, which should change one day, so time is not an issue. I don’t consider myself to be ‘strong’ so the weights and low/mid intensity plyo should help. I also want to LJ.
Well I am 44 - a parallel universe to the rest of this board !
Comparing times, 1500 in 5.10 and 5K in 20.20 is not far off my times over those distances at the moment and I can run a 90 min 1/2m. So if you increase your mileage you should break 2 hours with ease.
5.10 and 20.20 are respectable in the world of middle aged road runners and could extrapolate to a respectable 1/2m time.
Judging by your 10k time you do need to work on endurance. If you did that you should be able to run 10k in around 43-45 mins I guess. 1/2m could be twice time spent on 10K + 10 mins. (1.40).
I’m happy with those being lifetime PRs since the 1500 and 5K may never be duplicated. Never been into distance but like to do Race for the Cure and other runs like that.
What sources have you found really helpful for finding all comers or master meets with open divisions? I browse through the Master T&F email group and have a couple of other sources that can be hit or miss. I’m in CA so I know there must be large all comers or invitational type events.
