Combining wghts such as squats and speed training for a performace free athlete would be overtaping into the cns pool for one day. Especially when doing more then 3x2 for a giving exercise. What I mean is there would be to much cns power-related work for the day. Would anyone disagree or agree with this?
On the other hand when Angella has had a workout consisting of 95% intensity runs reinforcing “smooth running” she can go in the weight room and really “blow them up”
Q: But on 100% she wasnt as strong? If your only doing two speedworkouts a week. Couldnt you lift on a tempo day?
From my won personal experience I feel tired and out of it when I lift after speedwork. Like Im seeing stars after one rep of squats. And on the other speedwork day which I also do speed-endurance. I cant perform any lifting after because I am so drained from the SE. Any comments?
What do people here in the forum do? How many lift on speed days?
I find the same to be true , and as strength issues were a big factor for me not so long ago , I found the best way for me to make gains in the gym and avoid burn out after track work was to cut one speed day every two weeks ( usually accellerations on a monday ) and just warm up and lift on that day .
The following speed day I just do track and only combine track/lifting on the 3rd day ( friday ) giving a 2 day cns recovery .
I’ve found this way I get much more out of both and can actually get more focused on whatever I’m doing .
The dangerous thing is it always seems possible to find the energy for lifting at the time , and unless there’s someone there to tell u 2 lay off - u can quite easily overcook it .
I never lift after tempo unless its the only thing I’m doing ( cos of injury etc )
Tim, if you’re doing two speed workouts per week, you might want to save the weights (at least the lower body weights) for a separate workout. Something like this:
On the speed days maybe you might do one upper body lift or simply use extra med ball work as a substitute for weight lifting. Weight lifting isn’t the only means to improve your strength levels, so don’t feel obligated to include some minimum amount if something else can be used.
Typically, I put speed days with pulls (cleans, snatch) and tempo days with presses (jerks, bench,etc). I find that on speed days the athletes are “jacked” so feel really explosive on those days.
Right now, I feel that if tempo days are kept truely for recovery (staying out of the intensive range), then the CNS should not be overly-stressed with lifting and speed falling on the same days.
Its interesting to hear another sprinter with similiar results. I have also played with similiar things such as lifting every 14 days and it seems to work to such an extent. I think I might do somthing like this in the future. Say for this outdoor season. The first cyle since I am trying to get a certain number of lifts over 85% would not be done on speedwork day. But the second cycle when I back off lifting and go back to 70% with low reps could be done on a speedday. Any comments.
M SP/Plyos (med ball lower)
T TEMPO/Wghts 4x3 or 4x4(bnch/sq/milit./situps/reverseleg)
F SP/SE (med ball upper)
Wghts (Incline,frontpress,lat p-d,)
with 6-10 reps
M SP/PLYOS/MED BALLlower /WGHTS3x2
T Tempo (med ball core high reps)
w Just warmup
F SP/MED BALL upper/ wghts low rep
Sat Light tempo
Flash, dlive11, gloopzilla what do you think. Any suggestions?
Hit me up on Instant Message or U2U and we could go into further discussion on your program.
Seems reasonable. On cycle 1, you might want to shift the lower body lifting from Tuesday to Saturday, so you can take advantage of extra rest on the weekend.
Where’s you tempo for cycle 1?
Tempo on cyle one is on tuesday and Im still playing around with the idea of light tempo on sat? Goodpoint flash I need temp at least two times per week. I think your right.
You should consider the tempo on Saturday. As Charlie says, Tempo is like Chicken soup. It never hurts and cures all!
Your all absolutely right. Say saturday would be my lighter day what would that involve any suggestions. Dlive11 I just nailed you with a U2U.
Got it. Talk to you after practice.
Also, if you’re going to do lifting on your tempo days (cycle 1) do the tempo afterward, which will help flush the muscles after the lifting and accelerate recovery. If you’re going to do lifting the day after your speed work, I would suggest keeping the volumes low. In other words, prioritize one, and reduce the other to a minimum.
I’m not sure about others but I have tried to not mix days, i.e. Neuromuscular and general(tempo) or NM and SE. I will occasionaly mix SE and general type days but rarely. What do you all think
Flash, to go along with your post, the coach/ athlete definately needs to prioritize the track and strength work in order from highest CNS demand to lowest. I agree that you do not need a lot of volume in the weight room to get the improvements. If you have your core lifts (clean, snatch, jerk, press, squat, etc) then work around those and supplement when necessary. More is not always better, remember You dont plow a field with a stallion.
I have seen it done before (mixing), but I think it depends on the athletes schedule and training goals. I generally dont like to mix work because if the speed work is done and then the athlete goes to tempo, the core strength may not be as fresh to work on correct posture and tall hips. So I would rather break them up and have the athlete use tempo as recovery and a means to increase capillary base.
This is along the same thread.
Do to restrictions in my training, my current training looks like this.
Mon - Rest/Recovery (Stretching/Sauna)
Tue - am Weights, pm Throws
Wed - am Recovery (sleep, sauna) pm Speed (15-20m)
Thu - pm Weights
Fri - Rest
Sat - pm Competition/Training (Tempo)
Sun - am Throws
Weights are limited to about 30 minutes (low volume but around 80 to 95% effort)
Throws - Hammer one session light hammers in 85 - 90% of training max, the other at competition weight in same range
Sprints - generally 6 to 10 x 15 to 20 m.
It’s not ideal, but I think its better than during Tue weights on Monday.
I’m looking maybe doing 3 weights sessions per fortnight.
Tim - RE ur ideas 4 cycle 1 & 2
It possibly looks worth a go - I particularly like the way you’ve got just a warm up , then a day of rest pre speed endurance .
Anything thats going to make you feel ready for speed has got to be worth trying .
It’s all about getting the balance right I s’pose and 14 day cycles are also a good option when it comes to juggling components and recovery .
It is a sound plan. I like that you throw prior to doing speed days becuase sometimes that can stimulate CNS for the next day. Do you train with Puds to supplement with weights or part of training? My one question is between Tuesday speed session and then following it with a Wednesday weight routine. What are you doing Wednesday?