Charlie: Ben etc. post sessions

Expert Discussion Recovery and Regeneration
1

I am not sure but I dont think there was many (any?) of the post-workout drinks we have today (Surge, SNAC formula etc.) back in the early-mid 80s. I was wondering what did Ben, Desai, Mark etc. have after sessions. You have said before that they had BCAAs duing sessions (is that right?). What did they have after their track/weights sessions. Or more accurately, what would you you like to see them consume after sessions??

Thank you.

2

They used Leucine, Isoleucine and Valene during and post workouts of long duration.

3

Thanks for the reply Charlie.

Would you still stick with that protocol post-session? What are your thoughts on high-GI/ whey drinks?

Thanks.

4

^bump ^bump

5

We’ve had a number of discussions about this in the archives. I would use a high glycemic index drink with quality amino acid isolates, like Proglycosyn, after extremely intense workouts- but only then.

6

Sorry if I am flogging a dead-horse. Just this is news to me. So many posters here , nutritional ‘gurus’ etc recommend high GI formulas after all track/ weights workouts.

This leads to inevitable questions:

  1. what do you consume after a regular track/ weights workout? High-quality, high intensity but not extremely intense?

  2. does it change after a qulaity endurance track session?

thanks. apologies of covering old ground. even a reference to old threads would be great - I cant find them :slight_smile:

7

Charlie, to clarify your protocol, what do you mean by extremely intense workouts? Do you mean intense as in extremely high volume(volume of speed work) or extremely high quality work(PB’s or near PB’s) and also as in more CNS intensive(i.e. top speed and acceleration work) or more muscular intensive(i.e. speed and special endurance work)?

8

I would describe it as exhausting physically, as this would be a muscular recovery tactic, rather than a CNS recovery means.

9

Makes sense, thanks! :slight_smile:

10

What is the logic behind this? The use of Hi-GI Carbs and Protein, post-workout, is heavily supported by Science. Or is it?

Dazed, 23, Clemson. Can you shed some light on this?

If not ‘high glycemic index drink with quality amino acid isolates’, what else?

Thanks guys.

11

This is very fast and am probably missing some stuff - but essentially …

For Post Workout Recovery the following things must be included in consideration:

Body Comp and Body Comp Aims:

  • If a Higher Body Fat is present - maybe the Carb levels of the PWO need to be reduced or even the total volume of PWO
    Training Session Type:
  • High proetin levels are needed to repair after weight training moreso than post lower Tempo-type work
    Training Session Intensity:
  • High intensity Trg requires Hi-GI Carbs to trigger insulin and also to assit in muscle carb recovery
  • Low intensity Trg doesn’t respond as well to Hi Gi sources and tends to store the sugars as fat if not used, Lower Gi are absorbed better, fats maybe included.
    Required Gastric Emptying Rate:
  • Again - for low Intentsity Trg the Carb levels can be lower and GI can be low also
  • Fats can be added to assist in slowing the GER
    H20 Loss:
  • Heat etc., De-hydration

The Key factors need to be:
% of Macro Nutrients - How much Protein : Carbs ? - What was the function of the session?
% Solution - How fast should the PWO drink be absorbed?

Other Considerations:
Time of the Carcadian Cycle:
Is it night time - do Carbs or fats serve you best?
Amino Acids:
Leucine etc.?
Antioxidants:
Vit C Vit E?

These are just some of the elements - but like Charlie says in some of the books (can’t remember which - think its the Forum Reveiw) … Ben followed a balanced diet - (probably similar to the Zone) ,… but the only time to really be conerned about Hi Gi’s is PWO and as a rule for general health avoid them at other times…

12

Thanks 23 for the reply.

Just one point for the moment…

“…but the only time to really be conerned about Hi Gi’s is PWO and as a rule for general health avoid them at other times…”

Charlie states that Hi GI Carbs should not be included after every Hi-Intensity session. To be exact:

“I would describe it as exhausting physically, as this would be a muscular recovery tactic, rather than a CNS recovery means.”

So all speed (track) + weights sessions shouldn’t neccesarily be followed by a Hi GI C +P formula. This is contrary to what I thought to be the case.

13

OK I see what you’re getting at :
“…but the only time to really be conerned about Hi Gi’s is PWO and as a rule for general health avoid them at other times…”

Yes - however - the intensity and recovery demands of the session determine the PWO ingredients

“I would describe it as exhausting physically, as this would be a muscular recovery tactic, rather than a CNS recovery means.”

I think this is the key point here - Muscular Recovery drives the make-up/ingredients etc. - There are other elements - but essentailly muscular recovery.

All sessions must be evaluated indiviually on their own merits …