Which method due you think generates the greatest RFD potential? Westside claim box squats offer a safer way to achieve this. Upper body involvment is greatly reduced however, therefore olympic lifts may prove a more efficient format. With regards to sprinting, which is best, or should both methods be incorporated?
Box squats at low intensities can certainly be used to develop RFD. Without bands however, applying maximum force throughout the entire range (‘compensatory acceleration’) is near impossible. Box squatting Westside style is not itself an easy technique to master!
Technique permitting, I believe Olympic lift derivatives are a better option because they provide immediate feedback on performance and progress can be more easily quantified. When squatting how do you know whether you moved the bar faster than a previous session? Additionally, as you acknowleged, OLs also provide stimulus for the upper body and are therefore an efficient use of training time.
However, as a sprinter, you probably develop RFD sufficiently on the track.
David, how would you rate the use of bands and chains when performing squats, bench and other lifts. Are they valuable for sprinters?
RFD, if i am not mistake, is more or less power. It is the rate at which you develop force.
The issue I think is, box squats most likely allow for a greater force to be developed due to the heavier weights than can be lifted by the trainee. Olympic lifts allow for a greater rate of force development because of the shorter amount of time it takes to execute the movement. So in theoritical terms, the olympic lifts should be better for pure RFD.
Of course we’re dancing around the real issue which is sport application, and it is really hard to say which is better. I say, why not try both and see which fits into your individual program more.
Why box squats and not normal squats?
I have done both, and while boxsquats create a fierce tug in the hamies, I can do normal squats much quicker. And that means more power.
Also any squatting even with bands/chains will still require deccleration.
Here is where oly lifts and jumpsquats are better. For maximal power, the load must be released.
I prefer box squats for the very reason they seem to work the hip flexors more than standard squats. I use a relatively light weight for this, usually in the %50-60 1rep max, i.e westside dynamic. I might try incorporating some olympic lifts… there are a lot of things to juggle.
that should be hip extensors
The thing to think about though Col is where that power is coming from and whether it fits what you are trying to develop.
Although you can squat faster off an normal squat, much of the force is is elestic energy from the stretch of the tendons, whilst the force generated during a box squat is nearly purely muscular.
So whilst the normal squat will have greater levels of power at the joint, the box squat could well be generating greater power from a muscular perspective due to the higher force production.
i have been using the box squats at 50%, in conjunction with hamstring exersice called fall aways. i have definitly seen the results on the track. proff is in the pudding
David W. what are your thoughts on the band issue:
- should be used only once a week due to CNS demands?
- mainly used on bench and quarter squats?
- used afte se day at end of week?
When you get a chance could you please give some details as to age, training age, how you have incorporated the speed box squats into your program, and how it has helped on the track?
what’s wrong with using elastic energy?
muscle contraction aided by the stretch shortening cycle generates the most power, that’s how the human body works, so why not train it like that? You’ll be using more weight as well.
training age: 6
at first i used lighter weight at first to try and obtain correct form. that weight was 225, then as i progressed through the summer i moved upped to 265. i only added weight when the speed at the first set was comprobale to the speed at the last set. the set rep went 8 x 3 with 1min rest between set. i consider 225 light box squats because i have squated over 500lbs. to aid in hamstring dev i also used hamstring fall aways, which proved to be a great exersice also
used the box squat on lifting days that included pull ups and bench. lifting days were mon. wed. and friday. improved standing long jump, and flying 30m time and 30m from block start. also form has greatly improve in acc dev. se and tempo.
the lifting was done after acc dev days and se days. but as of late it has changed to bench and pull ups mon. with acc dev. and squat tuesday with tempo and hamstring fall aways.
the rest of the weeks lifting is now fri. squat and bench with resistent bands working toward max lifts. these are done typically after se workouts
what are hamstring fall aways?
Are these like Glute ham raise on the floor (AKA Russian leans)?
Col, the thrust of my post was not that box squats are better than normal squats but that each has its strengths and should be applied according to what you are trying to achieve:
whether it fits what you are trying to develop.
There is a growing tendancy for people to polarize on wether a lift or training technique is good or not. There is no black and white. Each lift has its merits and its draw backs, each is better in some circumstances than others and there is plenty of time through out the training season to explore different systems.
The original post asked the question:
With regards to sprinting, which is best, or should both methods be incorporated?
This has barely been touched upon because the argument has strayed onto the “This lift Vs. That Lift” head to head winner takes all path.
Bands, in my experience, don’t work well with full squats because there is too little resistance at the bottom and too much at the top. Since my athletes deep squat and (with a few exceptions) Olympic lift my experience with bands is limited. I have read all Louie and Dave’s articles and intuitively, the ideas appear sound. I feel however I have too little pratical experience to advocate them.
Oh yeah I think bands and fullsquats work great. I use em all the time.
In a full squat the bottom is hard and the top is easy, so with bands, it becomes hard all the way through, relatively speaking that is. Although I can still pop the bar off my back if I push real hard unless I use green bands and set them to start kicking in right off the bottom, then it’s an all out battle to lockout as there is something like an extra 200lbs of resistance up top
full squats with bands, sounds interesting. i stay with quarter squats to work the hips and keep the weight high as to try and totally use up the CNS.