If the coach don’t want to test for 3,5,10 rm what would you recommend? There are programs that are based around these rep maxes, for example 3x10x90% of 10rm…
I’m not sure I understand the question.
If the training percentages are based off of repetition maximums than a repetition maximum will have to be taken.
If a coach does not want the athlete to test a repetition maximum then I suspect it’s moot point because this would indicate that the coaches program does not include training percentages based off of repetition maximums.
I don’t see the point of testing rep maxes, we should be able to get a accurate number from the charts above. 5rm: approx 85%, 3rm: approx: 92.5%, 10rm: approx 74% etc etc.
At 85% of 1RM, I would think almost all muscle fibres would be recruited. Therefore, wouldn’t a test to see how many repetitions be performed tell you about the fatigue resistance of the FT fibres just as much as the ST fibres?
I would think that a higher number of reps might indicate maybe a higher % of IIa fibres over IIx, rather than a higher % of type I.
That also agrees with James’ post on how different training can change the results…I’m pretty sure bodybuilders have been shown to have much higher % of IIa fibres and less IIx fibres than average, and I would guess that their training would involve lots of higher rep work with heavy weight, similar to Poliquin’s test.
Too many factors can sway the rep test:
-does the athlete predominantly train with singles or go to failure?
-the athlete may have a build-up of fatigue from previous sessions which will allow far less reps.
-The athlete may be using creatine, which will allow more reps at a higher %.
P.S James, on that chart you posted how is the 3-jump test performed? Is it 3 consecutive 2 legged hops or a standing triple jump?
Thanks.
Who bases their system around 90% of 10RM? That would be about a 13RM for the typical athlete. Are you talking about a program designed for strength that centers around sets of 10 reps of a 13RM?
Dr. Stone!!! His methods are a lot better then your westside boys.
I’m curious about this too. I’m just quoting it so you don’t miss it, James.
Thanks.
The three consecutive jump test is a two legged triple jump (3 consecutive standing long jumps performed reactively/successively minimizing GCT)
For those of you who saw the results of my skill players that I posted- this is the way that I have them perform the standing triple jump.
I’m not a westside boy, although I do recognize that there happen to be an unusual population of elite lifters at that particular gym and that most of the guys I run into at powerlifting meets who are of any consequence take at least a portion of their training from westside principles.
I’d like to see some strength athletes that train exclusivey in the sub 70% of 1RM. I mean people pushing or pulling big numbers who got there doing 3 x 10 x 13RM. Does he have any elite weightlifters, either powerlifters or Olympic lifters, that have made significant progress with his system?
Just looked at this example of his program…
http://www.exrx.net/WeightTraining/Weightlifting/BasicWeightLifting.html
…and only the first 2 weeks out of 7 are 3 x 10, all other weeks are 3 x 5, and 10 out of 24 workouts are at least to 85% of 1RM. There is only one light day (<70%) which would equate to a 13RM load. How do you call this a system based on 3 x 10 at 13RM when there is only one day out of 24 close to this?
I’m not a westside boy, although I do recognize that there happen to be an unusual population of elite lifters at that particular gym and that most of the guys I run into at powerlifting meets who are of any consequence take at least a portion of their training from westside principles.
I’d like to see some strength athletes that train exclusivey in the sub 70% of 1RM. I mean people pushing or pulling big numbers who got there doing 3 x 10 x 13RM without ever doing heavier loads.
-Great post from James on choosing better tests! What are your thoughts on strength deficit?
-Being that this is a site devoted primarily to sprints, isn’t it a safe bet that most of the athletes discussed here are white fiber dominant?
kbm,
I’m trying to understand how an athlete can recruit all their muscle fibers yet train in a way that either positively or negatively affects the test result?
For my purposes the only strength deficit of any concern is the explosive strength deficit (ESD).
For this reason, I do not over emphasize ‘strength development’ in the weight room as this is the simplest of all training problems to solve.
Could not read the chart really well what was 100% for the 30m? How are the 30 meter sprints timed? Whats the weight of the shot?
Take note that you can enlarge the attachments at least one size by clicking on them after you’ve full screened them.
The standard shot is 7.26kg. I’m not sure of the timing method.
I don’t know what you mean?
I was just thinking that at 85% of 1RM, basically all motor units would be activated, so I just don’t see how Poliquin thinks that a test of 5 reps, give or take, says anything about being “slow twitch dominant.” My thoughts were that it could say just as much about how resistant to fatigue the FT fibres were, among other things.
As for types of training that might affect it, well obviously FOG (IIa) fibres are more resistant to fatigue than FG (IIx) fibres, and I think it has been shown that certain training tends to make IIx fibres behave more like IIa fibres… (not exactly sure if the fibres literally change, or just take on metabolic characteristics of the different type), and so my thoughts were that with the right training, the muscle fibres could become much more resistant to fatigue without necessarily changing the maximum amount of force that they can generate, therefore changing the results on the test but still saying nothing about whether one is “slow twitch dominant” or “fast twitch dominant.”
You are absolutely correct
With respect to athletes who are attempting to gain weight via a calorie surplus for a period of time will the nature of that added muscle be dependent upon the enviroment it is put on in. For instance someone is hurt and they can only lift weights and choose to lift primarily in the 10 rep range vs another athlete who is healthy and maintaining the same calorie surplus, but trains primarily with speed work and other activities that support the development of spent and the stretch shortening cycle?
Are the 3 jumps double leg like a frog jump?
Also in these tests how do you rank someone that has scores better in one part of the test compared to another?
Last one (sorry to be a pest!!!) Do you use these test in your program? I’ve seen it in track but not in football…
Thanks