You are perhaps thinking of Benny Johansson? He sure had a mullet.
(For non Scandinavians: Johansson, not Johnson, is a Swedish Surname. Benny, not Ben, is a Swedish first name.)
If you apply more force, acceleration will be higher and ground contact will consequently last a shorter time but the resulting speed will still be higher. That is, it is a good thing.
Of course, the Mullet is a common language, hopefully soon the relegated to the “dead languages file” along with Sanscrit.
Hold your horses boys. Typing Johansson was a spelling error that has now been corrected. Surreally doesn’t want to offend the worlds second fastest man ever:-). Since Thor is Norwegian I believe it was an open goal for him to jump on my case! He just couldn’t resist the natural the reflex to bully a Swede:-) Beware Thor, next time it’s my turn! The only way I ever is going to forgive you is if you upload Geir Moens 200m victory from the European Championship 1994…
Have a nice day
Håkan Andersson
Juggler, Charlie, I too am all for a productive discussion (and surely there are some greatly insightful exchanges being made here), despite the fact that one side may challenge the position of the other. After all, this is the inherent nature of the industry of training athletes.
None the less, I remain amused. Perhaps I am alone on this one.
Charlie,
in general terms given what you know now (and a time machine) what if anything would you do differently with Ben?
Given that circumstances dictated the Ben never went on to the point where he stopped improving, I don’t know if or when changes would have been needed for him to keep improving.
In your time with Ben did he reach many plateaus in training where there was a need for some thing new?
And if you had to look for something else what would be your thoughts? (did you already have some ideas if he were to peak?)
Not as far as an overall plateau, but mini-plateaus in training are reached constantly and minor adjustments must be made between componants and the usual vol and intensity considerations. an example might be a speed plateau might be eased by moving more high int work towards weights (to the right) and away from plyos (closest to the left). Of course, during such an adjustment period, the intensity of the speed worked would be dropped till sufficient compensation occurred.
I must say this is one of the best threads here and very informative - it has given me plenty to consider and to think about, certainly with regard to strength training and program design.
While perhaps heated at times it has been for the most part respectful.
I’m sure you will agree Charlie it is occasionally good to have ones concepts/ideas challenged as it forces you to justfiy, assess and clarify your logic.
And in such a forum we can learn so much more.
It also by its nature adopts a different view point and therefore is enlightening.
Sadly in some cases threads similar to these resort to slagging matches and I’m glad to see this is not one of those.
Personally I think we as a continuously learning and expanding forum owe it to ourselves to respect and welcome the opinions of a newcomer (once respectful) with differing views and not to be completely closed to differing views, so that we can expand and perhaps explore other options?
For those of you too young to remember, I have attached a quick lesson. Enjoy.
going out on a limb, here, so if it is way to stupid bash me all you want, im out of my leage here (for the time being;))
wouldnt, the increased, muscle cross section, give a mechanical advantage to the short-strech reflect? Generaly, fascia, colagen etc adapt slower that muscle protein, though they do contribute significantly to to the elastic properties of the muscle, thus, an increased cross section to a point of comfortable (for the muscle stucture i mean) pre-strech wouldnt allow for a higher storage of dynamic energy and even shorter times of its deployment in sprinting (or other plyometric seesions)?*
quite possibly, alot of factors are infuenced by muscle mass, be it regenerative capability (higher MGF secretion?), mechanic properties and even endocrinological factor.
wouldnt it be a bit overly simplistic to reduce everything to rate of force development since muscle is a living interacting part of the body, and not an engine…
*the elastic coefficient of springs does not remain constant while the spring streches, it increases up to a point, then decreases, then undergoes a rapid increase before the spring is structuraly damaged
Charlie,
Could you give more examples of scenarios that may lead to plateaus in a sprint program with recommended solutions please?
A kind of “trouble shooting” post of common errors or problems in sprint training.
Well, at the highest levels, EVERY BP creates a temporary plateau, and, if it isn’t apparent, it soon will be in the form of prolonged CNS fatigue or an injury if you aren’t careful. Always move to sub-max as compensation after a pb if in any doubt.
"Barry, interesting that you find the comparison ludicrous as (illustrated in my post) the comparison was drawn in an effort to compare the athletes accomplishments as a reflection of coaching strategies. Accordingly, if you still find the comparison ludicrous (provided the context) then you only reinforce the fact that very few speed coaches, in the history of track and field, can share the same stage as Charlie .
*** I did, and I do find the comparison ludicrous because coaching strategies do take time to fully develop. Is it possible that continuing on the same program would have shown greater improvements including world record times? I can’t say yes or no, and neither can anyone else.
Another topic of interest to me are your words "Perhaps you’re thinking of playing the “It was only one, very talented girl, you were lucky?” Spare me. I’ve heard it thousands of times. Barry, are you familiar with the phrase ‘where there’s smoke there’s fire’? I remind you that you brought it up, not me.
*** Your “where there’s smoke there’s fire” analogy doesn’t fit the statement nor does it address the issue for which the statement was made. I agree that one cannot build a case on one highly gifted athlete, nor, in fact, can they build the case of on a number of highly gifted athletes because one cannot seperate the giftedness from the athlete. The proof of the method is in the improvment patterns over a broad range of athletes of varying abilities. Absent the “wow” effect of a gifted athlete, there are many coaches out there who may have spectacular success without notice. How many on this site would want to hear the merits of the plan of a coach who has continually improved performances of 28.0 female sprinters to 25.0? You should be the only one who finds irony in my statement about Felix’s native talent because you missed the point (again). She is highly gifted, but perhaps not in the way you think.
"Charlie worked with Ben since he was a mid/late teenager and, RE your inability to recolect Ben’s teenage performaces, Ben was not setting junior world records at that time. In fact, the degree of improvement over the course of the subsequent decade is nothing short of monumental.
Thus, if any talk of born or made is to be initiated then there is no arguement against Felix being much more of a demonstration of the former. In fact, her world class accomplishments at her young age only serve to illustrate an early peak which is (historically) a function of natural abilities.
(Now, as I stated, Felix is no doubt a great athlete who has benefited from coaching and I do not in any way intend to diminish her performances. ) This is a discussion between coaches not for or against athletes.
Your inability to recolect any junior world class performances by Ben is a clear, only if subconscious, hommage to Charlies coaching strategies"
***This whole statement is so rank with logical fallicies it’s not worth commenting on.
“Take this at face value, I am a coach who has the utmost respect for great coaches, such as Charlie, and I am amused by the fact that you find doubt in a coaches methodics who has repeatedly proven them at the world class level.”
I take your statement at face value. You have no respect for me. I suck as a coach. Oh, other than a follower, what exactly have you done as a coach?
Barry:
I can’t speak for others, but, while we might disagree, it is a fact that you have proven results, and I think, in all cases, disputes arrive from the conclusions drawn from a coaching plan that works. While we will continue to disagree over some conclusions, respect for the obvious is the least you can expect from us.
Are you as respectful of PB’s in the weightroom as well? Even though the weight work supports the track work, do you ever adjust the track work because of what took place in the weightroom?
not really for two reasons, first the lifts are after the sprints, and second, because lifting comes after, the PBs usually come when the speed is dialed down a little already. everything must center around the prime objective- speed.
Barry thanks for the entertainment.
This exchange increases in it’s meaningless value with your every interperetation of my words. For this reason, this will be my last interaction with you in an effort to resurrect any last shreds of integrity which this thread may produce.
Don’t be so hard on yourself. Despite your implied sarcasm, I (nor anyone else) every said that you suck. But thanks for the laugh.
Nor have I (or anyone else on this thread) stated that your methodology is flawed. I don’t think anyone disputes the basis of the MSF principle, perhaps just the name; as the principle of an organism which has optimized the pull of gravity through maximizing it’s potential to produce relative strength/power-generating maximal force during/while minimizing GCT is no training break through. But if Felix can serve as your vehicle for reinventing pre-existing training directives then more power to you.
Your use of the phrase ‘rank with logical fallicies’ is superb; do you mind if I add that to my arsenal? I’ll be sure to credit you.
Not that it matters, because I am not the one finding holes in a world class coaching strategies, but here are the results of some of my efforts:
- I have coached a powerlifter up to elite qualification in two different weight classes, (from 605/425/550 to 804/601/705)
- I coached two JC football players who made the Citrus All Combine team in southern CA in 03,
- I coached a 10.52(FAT) 100m sprinter/25’10" long jumper) (10.52 was the PR he set under my coaching),
- I trained a military special operator for tier one selection and he graduated #1 in his class (I can’t give specifics because of the classified nature of the course etc)
- I coached the 2004 NSCIF North State Heisman Trophy Winner
- I coached the 2004 #1 Disc thrower, and #2 Shot thrower in the NAL (CA)
- I coached over 20 ALL section (NAL) football players over the past two years
- I am a strength coach for a high school football team whose head coach selflessly gives me great credit for our participation in the last three NSCIF section title games
- I coached an 11.01(FAT) 100m high schooler
- I currently coach a 100m high schooler who I expect to go 10.7-10.8 during this last year of his.
I suppose, based SOLELY upon your familiarity with me on this particular thread that you conjured your perception of me being a ‘follower’ of Charlie’s. Surely, I have utilized, with great success, many speed development principles of Charlies.
If, however, you are so inclined perhaps you will view my website www.powerdevelopmentinc.com as well as the site which I am a staff writer and Q and A staff member for www.elitefts.com
Barry, if, after reviewing both of those sites, you still perceive me as a follower then maybe you would be so kind as to grant me a more colorful and exotic description of the previously familiar meaning (as you have so galliantly done with MSF).
Well, it’s been entertaining, but I now regret the time I’ve wasted on this thread.
Barry I wish you continued success, after all, you’ve certainly selected an ignorant enough society to snow ball.
If I’ve got your intentions all wrong then you have my apologies and perhaps we’ll cross paths in the future and make it all lovey dovey.
Point 1: I think some are giving too much credit to this thread. It appears Ross believes that Ben was doing concentration curls and donkey calf raises, and not lifting some of the most impressive poundages (in serious lifts) seen in sprinters. I think that sometimes just saying that someone has too big of an ego for their own good is not a bad thing. To say that just given their mass a coach could make another athlete faster is just plain ridiculous.
“Sell crazy some place else, we’re all stocked up here.”
Point 2:
A comical note on mullets:
Famous Mullets:
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The Socker Rocker
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Mississippi Mudflaps
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Missouri Compromise
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Kentucky Waterfall
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The Achy Breaky Big Mistakey