FROM DAVE TATE Q&A in Sport Specific Journal:
“The last thing many coaches seem to forget is that
jumping ability is also very dependent on back extension.
The more explosive and strong you back extension and
core is the higher you will jump. Try to see how high you
can jump while keeping you back 100% straight with
no back extension. This is very a much overlooked
aspect of sport.”
My take is that back extension during a leap is something you would want to avoid as much as possible. If you are only training to improve your vertical leap test it may be ok. Wouldn’t it slow down the jump in game conditions if you have too much back extension (what Al Vermeil would term a back jumper)? A football player or basketball player would want the ability to jump as quickly as possible. This would indicate that squatting narrow stance and initiating the movement with knees is more favorable than initiating the squat at the hips.
Funny, I don’t remember MJ and Dr. J having much back extension when they were dunking every night for decades. Or do running starts don’t count for jumping ability? And that monster dunk by Rasheed Wallace last night toward the end of the game. Didn’t see much back extension there.
Particulary from a running start, there is little to no back extension in high jumping, basketball or volleyball or a WR going up for a pass.
From an athletic perspective, in basketball or volleyball, you’re career is not going very far if your performing a back extension during a game. How can you see the ball if you’re leaning over?
If back extension was more important than hip extension, all those guys at WS should win the NBA dunk contest every year with their squats which at times resemble good mornings.
True there must be some forward movement of the torso in a VJ. A VJ is a multiple joint movement, whereas one aspect or muscle involvement can be more of a contribution than another. I happpen to think hip extension is more important, but not the only contributing factor to jumping ability.
Why do Olympic weightlifters and field event throwers have higher VJ? Because they squat deep with a near vertical torso with full hip extension.
They may also perform more jumping than WS as well.
Well obviously, Dave Tate is 100% correct. Your going to jump higher when you involve an explosive core & back extension into your jump as opposed to just standing straight up with the back straight w/no back extension and initiating the jump with just ankle extension. That’s obvious.
Wouldn’t it slow down the jump in game conditions if you have too much back extension (what Al Vermeil would term a back jumper)?
He ain’t talking about game conditions. Hes saying The more explosive and strong your back extension and your core is the higher you will jump. Don’t see the problem.
Basketball players only need to use very little knee, hip, back extension when they jump because of the forward momemtum they have already developed from running towards the basket and because there so god damn tall in the 1st place…
He ain’t talking about game conditions. Hes saying The more explosive and strong your back extension and your core is the higher you will jump. Don’t see the problem.
If you’re not involved in an athletic endeavor, where are you jumping at? In jump training exercises there isn’t much back extension especially in multiple hurdles or boxes. Perhaps in a high single box jump.
as opposed to just standing straight up with the back straight w/no back extension and initiating the jump with just ankle extension. That’s obvious.
How about hip extension?
Basketball players only need to use very little knee, hip, back extension when they jump because of the forward momemtum they have already developed from running towards the basket…
They have to get in the air somehow. There is no back extension at the end of a drive to the basket for a dunk. So we can rule out back extension as a large contributing factor to jumping ability. How about basketball and volleyball players one or two steps and jump. Sometimes with their arms already extended.
and because there so god damn tall in the 1st place…
Keep things in perspeptive. It seems as if you may have taken the statement by Dave Tate out of context.
First, we must keep in mind that much of the sport specific section of eltitefts is centered around football. So, if the quote was taken out of the context of a question pertaining to football (of which there is a very good chance), then consider the following:
what plays a very big role in a football player receiving a scholarship or a contract…Combine results
As you stated, back extension plays a key role in VJ in testing conditions
If you look at the statement in this light I believe you will find yourself in agreement.
So, if the quote was taken out of the context of a question pertaining to football (of which there is a very good chance), then consider the following:
By a back jumper, Al is talking about the need to use the arms to wind up. In basketball, if you bring the arms down to wind up, you won’t have the ball anymore when you go back up!
Volleyball is different - there can be quite a lot of back extension in the jump, though it’s not necessarily to increase the height you reach. In a normal block, you are quite right; you jump straight up.
But in a spike it allows you to hit the ball harder.
In my opinion, jumping isn’t just about how fast you can extend, more importantly its the speed at which you can stop your body hyper-extending while translating horizontal momentum upward.
If you hyperextend, you lose all your upward thrust due to lateral force displacement.
Just like in sprinting, if you don’t control the force you end up speed skating. It’s just less obvious.
Its like this. Basketball players are genetically gifted. Most are 6’4+ with arms that can stretch the length of pool tables, couple these gentics with forward momentum and that is the reason you see many basketball players not needing to involve extensions throughout the body when they jump. The height they need to achieve to dunk a basketball is already 90% created because of there height and how long there arms are.
Volleyball players seem to use more extension due to the lack of forward momentum they create especially when its played in sand.
Wouldn’t using back extension in a jump mean you would have to flex the spine before you jump!! Otherwise if you started from a neutral spine position, your thrust would actually throw you backwards.
Nearly the entire statement here is loaded with misinformation or assumptions. Basketball players are genetically gifted, compared to whom? Aren’t all athletes genetically gifted then? Gifted for what? The height of the jump has very little to do with the height of the athlete. If you are referring to how high the arms go, then that would mean how high they reach and not jump. And where exactly does the 90% come in, is that just made up? What’s wrong with 80%, or 85%, or 87.5%? I hope this doesn’t come off as an attack, but there is no real rational thought here.
Right, open your mind. COMPARE yourself to Shaquelle O’ Neal.
Who would be the more accomplished basketball player/scorer given the fact Shaquelle was blessed by his parents with the height genetic, YOU or SHAQ???..
Compared to the average athlete who bears 5’6, 5’7, 5’8 in height, thats whom.
Jesus. Its common sense. A basketball player who is 7’0 tall will have the advantage of scoring easier baskets/ and be the more accomplished basketball player than someone who is 6’0. Gordon Bennet.
Aren’t all athletes genetically gifted then?
Yes they are, but where referring to bbbbbaaaaassssskkkkeeeeettttballlllll pllllaaaayyyeeeeerrrrrrrsssssssss. You know, the ones who were gifted with height<<< (genetics). Because they were gentically gifted at birth with height, they will 99x out of 100 have the superior advantage than someone alot smaller at scoring/dunking, thus an a lesser incoporation of the joints when jumping.
so why do shorter point guards dominate games? and there are tons of tall people, then why arent they all great basketball players? Explain Allen Iverson? Jason Kidd? Stephon Marbury? the list goes on… And really if you look at the high school level at most schools you go to the kids arent nearly as tall as youd think…sorry to burst ur bubble…