i will probably stick with lower and less, as accel work was really good with good development!
on another note, in GPP outdoors -since it’s shorter- would you move back to hill work, or “continue” track work with a short GPP? i was just thinking that moving “backwards/forwards” between hills/track might be more “confusing”, if it’s only for a short period of time…
not sure if this has discussed lately, or if it would more appropriate to post it as a separate thread for others with same “concerns”…
The decision on hills depends on when the indoor comp period stops and the weather conditions available to you. If the Meets are over now, then you might, if they are over in March the it’s less likely you’ll have time. If weather conditions don’t allow for hills, you might consider a sled or Isorobic exerciser for some slight resistance.
thanks for this Charlie!
racing might be over next Sunday, if not from today…
if time -outside training- was there, i would have a short hill prep, but… I might do a combo of the two (e.g., like week 5, i think, onwards as on DVD)
Real coaches have real world class athletes to train; furthermore, they embark their knowledge on us when they have time to give it not when we have time to demand it! I spend all sorts of time being an internet zombie on this forum, ebay, and etc,etc,etc… as I’m sure you do with being on 3 different website forums at any given time. So it may seem like an eternity before you get a reply from somebody who isn’t on the internet very much and when he is he would like to see other threads as well.
That being said you have not replied on this forum to my posts on the thread “Westside Barbells, arguments for and against”. You started this debate on another website and made it into personal attacks; well, I made a promise to you and I have kept my end of the bargain. Now why don’t you debate me on the issues at hand? There’s nothing wrong with being an asshole if your right just don’t start bragging about it, putting down others, and take peoples quotes out of context!
That’s rich from you, you had a great opportunity to put your case at Rugged (a board that is WS dominated) yet made all sorts of ignorant statements. I wouldn’t call the thread you refer to necessarily a personal attack as an expression of opinion, certainly it didn’t start out that way.
I would have loved to have responded to any and all questions; however, I made a promise to Kruger and I keep my promises.
Ignorance?
I am the most open-minded person in the world! If you can convince me of something I will admit that I am wrong, I have no problems putting aside pride and ego.
BTW, I am not antiwestside, If I was I would not have bought $350 worth of books from them!
Ignorant point 1.
For a start, Kiwiland refers to New Zealand the only Kiwi’s I know of in Australia are in zoo’s. It would be similar to me saying you were from the U.S. (I assume the B.C. is British Columbia)
Ignorant point 2
ig·no·rant Audio pronunciation of “ignorant” ( P ) Pronunciation Key (gnr-nt)
adj.
Lacking education or knowledge.
Showing or arising from a lack of education or knowledge: an ignorant mistake.
Unaware or uninformed.
Ignorance and being open minded may be related but aren’t the same thing.
Ignorant point 3
From the Rugged thread. I can understand you guys being John Davies fans and not wanting to check threads at CF bc of child like comments made about him.
Davies has possibly been lambasted more for longer at Rugged than here :eek:
Perhaps I should start a seperate thread on you? :rolleyes:
On Davies, I was unware of how much you guys disliked him and I did a search and found out that was the case; nevertheless, first one member attacked David W bc he thought was retarted and then that member later recanted stating"Yeah I meant Super". Obviously this guy didn’t want to go against the grain and so he put his anger of people that he thought were anti-westside onto me. I have never been anti-westside. Also , David W was openminded enough to use bands with his athletes if I recall correctly before making a decision on band nonusage!
Your point is well taken on the New Zealand and Australia, so I have changed my post but I still disagree with you on the rest.
If I lack education or knowledge the please educate me on Westside even though I have looked through their archives and deepsquatter.com. And please don’t go into that whole thing that If I knew how westside worked then I would have known about the bands being used upside down where the bands make it harder as you go down and easier as you up (i.e.bench press). I have there stuff printed out and I will look over it one more time. Being forgetful isn’t being ignorant (although you would argue that if you forget than you no longer have this info in your brain and thus are ignorant), at least not in my book!
Case and point;
First Jared NFS calls David W a retard,
David W’s quotes,
[QUOTE
I am currently researching the effects of Post Activation
Potentiation on speed strength. 3 repetitions at 90% in the squat
cause a significant potentiation in CMJ performance. Guess what
happens when the same protocol is repeated with bands? Performance
declines! It fucks up motor control
Is this an immediate effect? They will fuck up motor control in the short term. Squat with heavy band tension, then take the bands off and squat again. Your first rep or two will most likely be retarded, then you will start squatting normal again.
QUOTE
Because the resistance in the outer range is near maximal!! i,e. Is too heavy to move quickly! How much more basically do I have to explain it? ]
[b][Is this guy retarded or am I missing something? If I throw 600 pounds of tension on the bar, then perhaps he’s right, but you need a little tension to keep the bar from coming off your back on a good speed squat anyway. Not to mention that you can’t compare the force worked against at the top with the force worked against at the bottom anyway. It should be specific for that joint angle. Say you have 400lbs with tension and bar weight at the bottom and 500lbs at the top. 500 is a larger percentage of your squat, right? But the problem is that if you did a squat with only 10% ROM, you’d destroy 500. Just a quick and dirty example.
Diablo has had success with some athletes with the Westside template. One guy put on weight and decresed his 40 time without running in that time. Purely anecdotal, obviously.
Another thing to consider is the judicious use of bands and speed squatting. Most powerlifters that use bands deload with little or no accomodating resistance going into a meet, so they respect the drawbacks to using bands, but they also appreciate the strength gains they can provide. So it’s not like the athletes would have to use bands year round, but a total of 10-15 weeks a year or even less could provide some benefits.
An alternative to a traditional Westside split would be having a squat day where you start off doing speed, then work up to a single or a double with a heavier weight, trying to keep the speed up as much as possible. This could also reduce the squatting days per week to one, which would have some advantages for athletes at different points in the season.
This post has been edited by Jared NFS on Feb 25 2005, 03:35 AM][/b]
Then Aaron F states this jewel,
[QUOTE (Jared NFS @ Feb 25 2005, 09:34 PM)
Is this guy retarded or am I missing something?]
there is a lot of retarded at CF site…
Then Dookie1482 in a wolfpac like mentality starts talking about David W,
[QUOTE (Aaron_F @ Feb 25 2005, 09:24 AM)
QUOTE (Jared NFS @ Feb 25 2005, 09:34 PM)
Is this guy retarded or am I missing something?
there is a lot of retarded at CF site…]
Yes, and that guy that Chris quoted from has been in a shitload of arguments over there, and has made some pretty outlandish posts. Like Ross said, you can’t compare T&F athletes with many others. They are already (generally) so powerful that of course DE work won’t help them too much. For other athletes whose sport (and practice) isn’t so plyometric in nature already, it should logically help them.
Then Chris Aus states this,
[QUOTE (dookie1481 @ Feb 25 2005, 09:37 AM)
QUOTE (Aaron_F @ Feb 25 2005, 09:24 AM)
QUOTE (Jared NFS @ Feb 25 2005, 09:34 PM)
Is this guy retarded or am I missing something?
there is a lot of retarded at CF site…
Yes, and that guy that Chris quoted from has been in a shitload of arguments over there, and has made some pretty outlandish posts. Like Ross said, you can’t compare T&F athletes with many others. They are already (generally) so powerful that of course DE work won’t help them too much. For other athletes whose sport (and practice) isn’t so plyometric in nature already, it should logically help them.]
David is smart extremly conservative with his approach but pretty smart, supervenomsuperman is retarded though…
Then Dookie1481 in a wolfpac like mentality does not want to go against the grain and so he recants his previous statement about David W and puts his anger of what he thinks his anti-westside against me,
[QUOTE (Chris Aus @ Feb 25 2005, 02:17 PM)
QUOTE (dookie1481 @ Feb 25 2005, 09:37 AM)
QUOTE (Aaron_F @ Feb 25 2005, 09:24 AM)
QUOTE (Jared NFS @ Feb 25 2005, 09:34 PM)
Is this guy retarded or am I missing something?
there is a lot of retarded at CF site…
Yes, and that guy that Chris quoted from has been in a shitload of arguments over there, and has made some pretty outlandish posts. Like Ross said, you can’t compare T&F athletes with many others. They are already (generally) so powerful that of course DE work won’t help them too much. For other athletes whose sport (and practice) isn’t so plyometric in nature already, it should logically help them.
David is smart extremly conservative with his approach but pretty smart, supervenomsuperman is retarded though…]
Yeah, I meant super.
Then Chris Aus does the Straw-man method by deliberately misstating that I ran a 4.1 40 even though I stated it was a 4.19 40, I guess T-mag was right about him and using the straw-man method this invariably leads other members of that forum to think that this is the case and so everyone starts to think that I said I could run a 4.1 40!
[he did run a 4.1 40 though]
Now I did post this at this site,
[QUOTE
This is all nice but let’s get everybody’s 1RM lifting numbers for squat and bench who incorporate the westside methods!]
Which Chris Aus does the straw-man method against me and misstates this is as what I said,
[b][Quote
To be honest, I dont really care for your responces, pretty much because I dont want you posting here, and I apologise to rugged members for starting this thread…
Anyway… Just FYI I think the problem with you is that you state things like they are fact… You dont state your opinion you state something as fact () to the point of givng Charlie himself training tips… You ask the stupidest questions like "what are the numbers fo the guys at westside anyway?"you write a virtaul thesis behind the physics of training and dont know what acceleration is] [/b]
My point was is everybody’s lifting numbers (not just guys that are a part of the WSBC) using the westside template.
Now he doesn’t want to hear my opinion? Sounds to me that he is the ignorant one!
I don’t remember all the exact formula’s for everything I took in physics! And if it was a thesis or article then I would have put this in the articles section!]
And then the admission of guilt in turning this into a personal fight instead of a debate,
[Yeah ive written to the mods and apologised. I started this thread with good intent but turned it into a big fight, and got SVS here]
And right after he does this he then post this jewel about my quotes and misquoting and misintepreting what I said,
[b][QUOTE
My theory is that stronger calves lead to more power and can help in the triple extension in cleans, plyo’s, and sprinting. Also I believe, that the more powerful calves will overcome the leg-lever issue so that the former outweighs the latter. When I mean stonger calves, I’m talking about a person calve pressing 1400 lbs and 700 lbs for a single leg, meaning a I still have lot of work to do before proving any of these theories. Afterall, if the strongest person in the world can squat over a 1000 lbs, he must be able to calve raise 1600 lbs easily if put in the same amount of time.
Of course it just makes sense that all sprinters should be able to do calf raises with 1400lbs…
QUOTE
however, it’s also true that the calve muscle will fall down faster than a lighter calve muscle.
QUOTE
So therefore, an elite athlete can become faster sprinter with heavier and more powerful calves then logically he could push-off the ground with greater force and then swing his leg forward faster and finally let gravity pull the leg down faster. A triple effect.
Just telling CF that he is WRONG I see.] [/b]
I wasn’t telling CF that he is wrong! I was trying to debate with CF and see if I could get a better answer then the one that was provided in the CFTS, whether this was given by CF or a forum member did not matter to me as long as it made sense. In fact, read all of my posts on that thread and you will see that I am right. I am also not questioning CF’s experience I take the man’s word on all his materials; however, debating them may shed some insight or enlightenment into current training methods and new ones maybe not by me but by some other forum member!
BTW, Straw-man method is where (from T-mag),
you simplify or falsify your opponents stance or opinion, then attack that “strawman” version of the stance or opinion rather than the real one.
SVS I can’t and wont justify the opinions of others I can only defend my own (and then not all the time ) what I will re-iterate is that Rugged is very WS dominated.
If you wish to discuss this further feel free to PM me or post once again at Rugged if you choose the latter make sure you have flame proof clothing on :eek:
Ha Ha, very funny, but since we both know who Kruger is then he and any Westside debaters/athletes/followers can debate me here on the Westside Methods.
SVS I should apologise for being immature and rude at rugged. It was pretty shit… Sometimes i (infact most my fellow australians) really suffer tall poppy syndrome… You can read about it hereand hereand here basically when we see someone that seems even remotely arrogant we begin to detest them… Excessive confidence in Australia is often seen worse than some serious crimes… Anyway didnt think I suffered from it but apparently I do… Anyway I apologise. I dont recall making you promise me anything though…
As far as the jumps off the back of a box, would you count each ground contact as a rep(combination of up and down as one rep) or every jump up as a rep and every jump down as a rep?-to total 10 to 20 reps. Also, on the chart I believe you have the hurdles hops depicted above and presumably before the jumps off of and back up to the box. Is this a critcial point or even a point at all-with regard to the ordering either within a phase or within a workout? Thanks.
) what I will re-iterate is that Rugged is 