My guess here is no speed ENDURANCE…people forget when they watch HSi run all those 9.s that we can also run 44s 400m and 31s 300m. NO-one is saying you have to run 31, but you can do 5 challenging 300s and never break 45 seconds for each, with the right recovery. TO EVERYONE READING THIS: If you’re doing 300s (like I saw recently at CS Northridge) and you’re running 36 seconds for 5 of them, that’s not base work, AND that’s too fast for DECEMBER! A pyramid with no base will fall. - Ato (Dec-7-1999)
I cant really make judgements because i did not see what exactly he was responding to.
He was responding to…
Hi Ato, Can you I have a problem with speed endurance. I noted you do about 45s for the 400m. My problem is that I pack up at about 90m. My top speed is quick, but I am let down by these areas. I’m suspicious perhaps about 150m is about my limit, nomater how much I train. My stats are; I’m 26, I run @11.35, 23.5 and have a laugh 55s for the 4!
5x300 at what pace isnt basework? For a 45 quarter miler it may be, but of course for a 49-50 runner it is not. I dont get exactly what he is trying to say? And how can you be too fast too soon? lol. We all know on THIS forum as long as your volume dosent drop substantially too soon you will be fine. Im guessing HSI’s program is long to short and that would explain Ato’s ideas that he stated.
I think the major point he is making by using that example is that even 9.9 sprinters need a strong base. The bigger the base the higher the pyramid.
I have Ato’s training schedule for a large part of his 2000 season preperation… a ton of overdistance work (intermediate stuff)
Originally posted by kevinG
I have Ato’s training schedule for a large part of his 2000 season preperation… a ton of overdistance work (intermediate stuff)
Is that from the “Train with Ato” Page. Is there a chance of you getting it up or emailing it out?
kevinG…
Would you post it (Ato’s training schedule) to this board?
I bet it would be interesting.
Originally posted by scarface
I think the major point he is making by using that example is that even 9.9 sprinters need a strong base. The bigger the base the higher the pyramid.
I don’t think that it is in question that a strong base is required. But, remember that the Aztecs designed their pyrimids differently than the Egyptians! How the base is constructed and with what materials is perhaps the most relevant question?
Good point gf_200…
KevinG:
I also would be interested in seeing that…Thanks
Why nobody is refering to the actuall values of the training when he’s takliking about adaptation ?
For example anaerobic lactate power or lactate capacity etc.
You know, talking about 150’s, I can let you run 8x150 with 2 min rest and let you die, but I can also tell you give me 2 under 15sec with 30min. Also the way you run them (example: easy the first half and max the last 50m,) plays a major role.
So, as you see its more important to talk about the values we are targeting than just the distances.
Think about…
Linarski:
That is a very good point…
I believe the reason most people don’t delve into values in detail is because they are unsure…
Using your example above…sometimes it is necessary to change the type of workouts to target different areas of the organism (i.e. lactate capacity, lactate power, etc.)
Having a strong base (i.e. 8x150 with 2min rest) helps give the anaerobic capacity to handle more intense lactate power type workouts (i.e. 2 under 15sec with 30min rest.)
I don’t believe that it is just coincidence that 99.9% of most sub20 200m sprinters focus on this type of training…
I will try post Ato’s training program… I’ll have to dig it up first though… hopefully tonight, but I haven’t seen it in 2+ years so it might take a minute to find
Quote
“Having a strong base (i.e. 8x150 with 2min rest) helps give the anaerobic capacity to handle more intense lactate power type workouts (i.e. 2 under 15sec with 30min rest.)”
8 x 150m what’s the intensity of these 150’s?
Kenny Mac~~
“Having a strong base (i.e. 8x150 with 2min rest) helps give the anaerobic capacity to handle more intense lactate power type workouts (i.e. 2 under 15sec with 30min rest.)”
[Scarface]
This is one of the most common justifications for the inclusion of intensive tempo in athletes training regimes. How often is the suggestion of inclusion of special endurance (and the dropping of moderated tempo running) shot down by the question:
“…but what do these top athletes doing Special Endurance do before they started doing these type of sessions…”
Does intensive tempo lead to an optimum progression to Special Endurance?
Originally posted by gf_200
Does intensive tempo lead to an optimum progression to Special Endurance?
Yes, I believe it does…especially for athletes that need a base/conditioning.
Consequently, a highly conditioned athlete can get away with going straight to special endurance (i.e. with very little preparation phase)
Originally posted by Kenny Mac
8 x 150m what’s the intensity of these 150’s?
Kenny Mac~~
Depending on the athletes strengths and conditioning…
It would start at 85%, then tapered to 95%…Finally, allowing the athlete to be able to do 2 150m at race pace with longer rest. In other words, as intensity and recovery time increases, volume is reduced.
As I mentioned earlier…It depends on the athlete…but the concept remains the same…
But why would it take a good portion of the year to get to this point? And why would this have to happen every year? I could see with a new athlete introducing 85% before 95% although there may be other ways to get them there, like 75% runs with increasingly shorter rests. Which one is better I don’t know, I don’t coach. But, why would you need to do 85% every year for a large part of the year?
BTW, I’m making a lot of assumptions based on what I’m imagining in my mind the program would look like, maybe it isn’t for a large part of the year, just a couple weeks to get to be able to go back to 95%s.
Originally posted by pete
BTW, I’m making a lot of assumptions based on what I’m imagining in my mind the program would look like, maybe it isn’t for a large part of the year, just a couple weeks to get to be able to go back to 95%s.
Exactly…I made an effort to emphasize that it is “especially for athletes that need a base/conditioning.”
As NO training is based on a one size fits all concept.
This type of training is applicable to 2 types the 1) developing athlete and 2) the already developed athlete that is coming from a long lay-off (due to injury, etc.)
Look at it this way, no matter how naturally fast the athlete. No one should expect him to run a 15 sec 150m with zero conditioning…
BTW its not a large part of the program… and should usually be done in fall/winter…
Hope that helps…
5 x 300 @ 45secs sounds like tempo work to me, which would count as a base. He does do over distance but this is largely a full out 300m at the end of a session, 150s or the like.
Originally posted by scarface
[quote]Originally posted by pete
BTW, I’m making a lot of assumptions based on what I’m imagining in my mind the program would look like, maybe it isn’t for a large part of the year, just a couple weeks to get to be able to go back to 95%s.
Exactly…I made an effort to emphasize that it is “especially for athletes that need a base/conditioning.”
As NO training is based on a one size fits all concept.
This type of training is applicable to 2 types the 1) developing athlete and 2) the already developed athlete that is coming from a long lay-off (due to injury, etc.)
Look at it this way, no matter how naturally fast the athlete. No one should expect him to run a 15 sec 150m with zero conditioning…
BTW its not a large part of the program… and should usually be done in fall/winter…
Hope that helps… [/quote]
OK, thanks now I understand. I could see how this could be an option.