Clemson,
you have mentioned this previously. Are Snatches really that hazordous for sprinters?
No.
- THe nature of the lift means that athletes can ‘miss’ safely.
- THe loads are small percentages of comparable limit strength exercises (deads; squats) therefore the risk of injury to the lumbar spine is reduced significantly.
- THe movement pattern involves lateral rotation and abduction therefore directly conditioning the troublesome rotator cuff muscles.
What is holding up the kilos…Timothy’s hot air? Last I heard it was the shoulder joints!
Good arguement - you’d better drop bench and any other type of press as well eh?!! Maybe you should all stop sprinting - think of the incidence of hamstring injuries.
Ridiculous 
An athlete consistantly tests about equally (+/- less than 2%)
in both static jump and countermovement jump tests.
What would you perscribe in the weight room to improve this athlete’s sports specific vertical jump if they were:
A. a high jumper
B. a long/TJ’er
C. a volleyball/basketball athlete
D. a 100m sprinter
BTW THe injury rate in weightlifting is practically the lowest of any dynamic sport.
clemson is right, when you are snapping the snatch overhead, you can easily dislocate as the shoulder joint is being forced upwards and back at the same time. regular pressing is more controlled. olympic lifts are violent and explosive movements are can cause problems. i could push press 230 lbs & i dislocated my shoulder on a 160 snatch for 3 reps (it did happen on the last rep).
Its the old CMJ Vs Squat jump question.
Assuming that the result does not stem from an inefficency in technique…
I would contend that the Golgi tendon inhibition is high and the myostatic reflex is not being optimally utilised. Obviously it is necessary to manipulate these two reflexes for optimal performance. THe obvious choice for vertical jumperswould be drop jumps. However as you may know I am not a great fan of this type of training since it is not easily quantifiable. Hg P.Snatch from hang would probably be the most specific method of developing the reactive qualities for this movement. Alternatively jerks are an option but are generally more stressful on the CNS.
I refer you to: 2. Bobbert, M.F., G.M. Gerritsen, , M.C.A. Litjens, A.J. Van Soest. 1996. Why is counter movement height greater than squat jump height? Medicine and Science in Sport and Exercise. 28: 1402-1412.
ESPN3,
I am not looking for the disaster injury, just the slight twinge that can fray the labrum. Weightlifting is very safe…Mike Stone presented at the level III school and showed us the data. But acute and chronic are not the same…if cleans are close why not leave it at that?
when you are snapping the snatch overhead, you can easily dislocate as the shoulder joint is being forced upwards and back at the same time.
Easily??? 
Jesus - I’ve never seen it happen in all my time in weightlifting.
david w, i would almost guarantee my injury was a result of my shoulders taking a beating from football although i never had dislocated my right one (the one i injured), just the left. but just because you have never seen something doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen. but hey, i mean if you haven’t seen it, i guess it never happened. according to my surgeon, who is the elbow/shoulder surgeon for 3 professional sports teams in my city (football/baseball/hockey), he has seen “a handful” of shoulder related injuries to athletes performing olympic type lifts. i do agree that olympic lifting is for the most part safe, but i guess problems can arise when athletes who are already under a great amount of physical stress from their own sports choose to partake in them. after i ease my way back into lifting, i will only use the clean and drop the snatch & clean and jerk. as coach mdd said, overhead lifts put some serious shearing force on the labrum, and in a lift such as the snatch, you are not just pressing the weight overhead, you are snapping it hard, so doesn’t that tell you there is a possibility of labral damage?
ESPN3,
Great point…the total impact loads must be counted. Perhaps the lifting is fine but the total bumps and stress of the sport one is doing adds up too much.
From personal experience, most people try to upright row power snatches up, especially self taught people, which is not what you do in a proper snatch. This can hurt the shoulders, just as upright rows do.
The hips and traps do all the work, the arms just follow the bar up and you dip under it and catch the bar even when it is still going up or just about to turn around. Well that is what you would do if you were trained to squat snatch, but power snatches do force you to try and pull the bar as high as you can and this can cause people to muscle the weight up and that is when risk of injuries multiply. Especially if the bar trajectory is away from the body going up and backwards like a cuban raise.
Watch any experienced olylifter doing power snatches, and it’s always a fast, yet a calm and controlled movement. There is no snapping of the arms involved, the bar flies up from the force of the hip and traps, and the lifter dips under and catches it.
It is like ballet 
But like anything if you never conditioned the shoulders to hold the loads you can pull up there, you will get hurt. The powerclean is no different, the shearing force on the knees can be fatal to some.
And the powerclean is not the same as a powersnatch.
On a superficial level they look similar, but the recuitment patterns are different, force and bar velocity.
The height that you start a power snatch from does change the feel of the muscles involved, this relationship is not found in the powerclean.
On cleans if you apply too much force to the bar you hit your chin.
With a powersnatch you can work with lighter loads and apply maximal force and blast it as hard as you want, the arms stop the bar from going any further.
The Bench press injures shoulders just as much as any, especially with a wider grip, yet countless athletes do them religiously
If shoulder injury is a concern, consider the clean grip snatch. Lighter loads are used since a higher pull is required, and thus risk is lower. Plus the shoulders are in a safer position closer in
and you can safely miss the lift without bumper plates by pressing the weight up. I find the catch dip much easier too, and the double knee bend or hip scoop easier to pickup in this variant.
colin,
just to let you know, i dislocated my shoulder while my arms were fully extended and locked and i was about 3 inches away from fully locking out the overhead squat part of the snatch.
Originally posted by ESPN3
colin,
just to let you know, i dislocated my shoulder while my arms were fully extended and locked and i was about 3 inches away from fully locking out the overhead squat part of the snatch.
wasn’t commenting on your case, just wanted to post a general observation
accidents do happen - sometimes despite all the preparation work we do.
Good post Col,
It’s interesting, a few athletes i’ve spoken to have damaged rotator cuffs performing Jerks (OL jerks mind u 
) due to a lack of shoulder mobility. Any suggestions as to what may improve shoulder flexability?
Originally posted by Dazed
[b]Good post Col,It’s interesting, a few athletes i’ve spoken to have damaged rotator cuffs performing Jerks (OL jerks mind u
Well the old standby is daily use of “shoulder dislocates” with a wooden staff or bands. Broom handles work great
Try and get the hands closer over time. I’ve heard of some very flexible people being able to use a shoulder width grip and swing
the staff around front to back :eek:
Who were those people Col, contortionists?
That level of flexibility is obviously not necessary in Track and field. Can there be dangers in weight training from being too flexible as well, with joint stability compromised?
I actually read that Mark Henry could do that when he first started weightlifting, as well as do the splits.
I also had a labral tear repaired not fun. I still cant quite get my arm back far enough to backsquat. Espn3 how have you increased your range of motion and how far have you come. i am about 4 months out from surgery.