what are you asking?
Yes! Additional ab work is not needed.
The question was tacked on to my original question. So what I am saying is high rep ab training is the way to go for most of the year, but what about in a specific max strength block doing some intense heavy weighted abs. I feel that doing those for football players (big skill and lineman) would be able to increase the absolute strength to a greater degree. The higher peak gives them more amplitude which means more strength reserve and endurance.
Some of my guys love weighted decline situps. Never appeared to hurt them.
Its just personal perference i guess, i perfer not to do heavy abs work never really had to bc my college SC belived that the heavy core lifts hit the core and the circuits we did everyday did the job.
When it’s high intensity- you ask: Why?
When it’s low intensity, you ask: Why not?
When you do the max strength block, the abs get the effect of any actual max str involvement. You’re already covered!
Another overanalyzer…
How do you know it didn’t hurt? What else could they have done with the CNS energy? Maybe faster sprint reps? Higher standard lifts? higher safety margin to prevent injuries?
Impossible to know for sure but everything has a cost with high CNS work.
LOL, i was thinking the samething.
Doing some decline situps for sets of 10 with manageable weight probably lies somewhere in the realm between “hi” and “lo” similar to certain med ball ab exercises. I think we have to define shades of gray here. I’m talking decline situps with ~25lb plate at the chest. Maybe he foresaw the Asafa vs Ashahara psoas comparisons on that Japanese documentary:)
Questioning whether or not something is actually having the intended effect is in my opinion the right thing to do. I need to increase acceleration in an athlete who is slightly over 100kg and would like to remain there. I want to ensure that all HI elements are supporting sport results and not wasting reserves that could be used for something else. I have noticed that DeFranco’s and Davis Training Systems have had great success varying the intensity of their abdominal movements. I am not aware of many high school ball players that had the type of size strength power and speed that there big skill athletes posses.
Im getting sick of you trying to combine all these different training methods, you seem to like Joe stuff so stick to that. You are always asking for advice but always try and compare what Joe and other like do with there athletes. CF told you what you should do, now go from there…
Weighted situps aren’t necessary for sprinters in my opinion. For weightlifters and powerlifters they are probably of benefit for body positioning during the lifts, but for sprinters, no.
Edit- I’m not sure I would class weighted situps as high cns work/cns draining. How is this defined and known?
tamfb you make a good point…At the current time I am trying to see how charlie would train a low level athlete such as a beginner high school football player. I am not aware of charlie extensively working with footballers of this level. Perhaps you have a greater mastery of charlies methods and some of the demands that are needed for a footballer and you can share them with me via pm or email. Additionally I try and see how some different components can be utilized throughout the training year.
this product should help you: http://www.charliefrancis.com/store/Scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=33
I have been helping you for the last 2 weeks via pm but our training philo is different, you are more Joe Defranco and im more CF based and you will always do what you feel comfortable during.
Tam, what is wrong with drawing from different experts like charlie francis, defranco, james smith, Verkhoshansky and so fourth? Is this not the best way to formulate what works for you and what you get results with, remember no one persons training methods are perfect? It would be unwise to follow one person’s ways religiously and blindly. As you said to me in a different thread, Charlie Francis is your god!
Nonetheless I may do a lot of Defranco stuff, but do agree with you on this account Tam and feel weighted ab work like above mentioned is not needed. Am I flawed for not agreeing with Defranco on this matter and using somebody elses ideas?
Your funny, if i had to pick between CF vs Joe Defraunco I would go with CF every single time bc to me CF methods are proven and have been through battle. Is CF my god depends which day of the week.
Never did I say who to pick or what to believe in, all i did was say Joe’s stuff is easily accesible in regards to the training of football basketball players and so fourth…
how many reps should one do of abs on easy days for track anyway?
After increasing my abdominal streangth this winter I now get sore abs from sprinting. Could crunches and leg raises on low intensity days help or could it get worse?
Right now I do no isolated ab work.