Heatwave,
If your goal is to run faster then weight training takes the back seat. If your goal is to be as strong as possible and lift the most weight you can then sprinting takes the backseat. You have to choose. That being said Im not sure if I understanding you correctly but If i do you are only doing tempo? Tempo will not improve your speed. You need to be doing short reps at 90-100% with long recovery and tempo on your other days to recover. If there are no comps. then typically you should have 3 speed days per week and 2-3 tempo days to aid in recovery. The trick is to ocntrol your volume in both the sprinting and the lifting. Perhaps posting your weight training program for us to see?
Hey, thanks for those tips; that could be what I’m missing. Yes, since September I’ve been doing just basic type of training. Basic weights (although heavy), tempo days, and a day or two with some moderate hill sprints. Kinda like a GPP, I guess. Now, I feel ready to get more specific with speed. I just expected my tempo speed to pick up as I got stronger with the weights. Honestly, I have not been doing the shorter, more intense effort sprints, nothing like 90-100%.
As for a typical weight training schedule. I’ll do something like this four days per week–
-warm up really good
-overhead squats–2 sets of 5
-deadlift (or squat)–3 sets of 3 with a minimum of 80% effort.
-overhead press–3 sets of 4 reps–heavy
-Power cleans–a few sets of 3 reps–medium heavy
–other days, I’ll throw in some one arm snatches with my 53 lb.kettlebell
This is one of the reasons I asked you that question in your journal, If you were more looking towars a powerlifting/olympic lifting goal then I would recommend you stay on your path but If you were mainly geared towards a track goal then I would suggest you implement more track work (speed work to be exact) just like QUIKAZHELL is saying.
You must ask yourself, ‘what am i strength training for’? Hopefully the answer is to get stronger with minimal increases in non functional mass (i.e to maximally increase power:weight ratio)? Obviously, sprinting has a greater strength endurance component than Olympic or Power lifts but this can be developed through specific track work and calisthetics.
Actually, neural adaptations fall into two catagories - general and specific. General adaptations such as increased central drive and reduced golgi tendon inhibition cross over to ANY exercise. More specicific adaptations such as increased inter/intra muscular cooordination cross over less well (though they still do).
I believe that you failed to progress with this type of approach because your training frequency, volume and/or intensity were too high. Many athletes perform 3 or even 5 reps at 85% I am proposing performing only singles. So to the contrary this type of training will also leave you fresher for the more specific training components.
It might be helpful for me to outline an example program for a more intermediate athlete:
Week 1: 4x3r @ 85% 3RM (or ~78.5% 1RM)
Week 2: 4x3r @ 90% 3RM (or ~82.5% 1RM)
Week 3 Session 1: 3x3r @ 95% 3RM (or ~87.5% 1RM)
Week 3, session 2: Test 3RM
I was in the same boat as you wherein my lifts were rising but I was actually getting slower. I was deadlifting 520 lbs(Max) at a bodyweight of 167lbs. I looked into complex training and began incorporating depth jumps, triple and double (long) jumps after sets in my workouts. My times began to improve greatly. -S
With due respect to Simmons and Rooney, I think this is crap!
Hiting methabolic paths doesn mean you hit the specificity… this is just one factor!
Quick-as-hell wrote:
Heatwave,
If your goal is to run faster then weight training takes the back seat. If your goal is to be as strong as possible and lift the most weight you can then sprinting takes the backseat. You have to choose. That being said Im not sure if I understanding you correctly but If i do you are only doing tempo? Tempo will not improve your speed. You need to be doing short reps at 90-100% with long recovery and tempo on your other days to recover. If there are no comps. then typically you should have 3 speed days per week and 2-3 tempo days to aid in recovery. The trick is to ocntrol your volume in both the sprinting and the lifting. Perhaps posting your weight training program for us to see?
I don’t know if you saw in my training journal, but I began more direct speed work today. I tried to apply your advice and concentrated on making sure I was running hard–at least a 90% effort, with several minutes between reps (these were 60m reps on a nice high school track nearby where I live). Since it was about 65 degrees and nice outside, I ran in shorts and training flats. These runs were hand timed and I was very surprised and pleased with the results.
I suppose before, with my tempo runs, that I expected them to feel faster or easier as I got stronger with the weights. Today was the first time I had actually tried to run “all out” with my reps. Prior to going over to the track I did a very brief (low volume, but very heavy weight) strength workout along with some box jumps for height and I felt very fresh and ready for the 60m reps.
I’m still unsure of how to structure temop days vs. speed days like today. Like, since I did speed today, how many days to wait before doing tempo? I may just need to monitor how I feel and “listen to my body” as the saying goes. Anyway, I just thought you would like to know that I applied your advice and ended up having a great workout .
One thing I feel that needs to be mentioned (the obligatory James Smith Comment), since I notice it in my own development -
The whole thing depends on the preparedness and level of the athlete. Generally, the lower preparedness and further away from elite the athlete is, the more volume can be tolerated and is necessary (provided there is adequate recovery).
At my current level of preparedness for example, I get a lot more from sets of 5 than I do from singels, doubles or triples. I would suspect the more advanced I become, the reps will go down, intensity up, and total volume may or may not change at first, but eventually trend downward as adaptation occurs.
It well may be,but everything happens purposedfully and by design. I have had consistent improvement and put solid preparedness in place using very low rep ranges even with rather young swimmers,absolute beginners in the gym.
It is more a matter of always trying to consider wider not narrower pools of options and make good use of them…
By the way, great to have your enlightening posts back,David. I personally missed a lot your expertise shared here as it used to be in the past,which made a number of my everyday professional experiences possible,and very successful at times!
3 reps at 85-90% would be around
<=10s do you think?
Did you break 7 sec?
I second that! it is nice to see David W back.
Would you be willing to share how you did that Pakewi? Im very interested.
Did you break 7 sec?
nycjay01,
These 60m reps were hand timed, so take that for what it’s worth. I used a standing start, slightly crouched over and I managed to run:
6.97
7.01
7.07
7.10
7.08
7.17
I just used the hand timing to get a ball park figure of where I stand right now and to have something to compare future times to. I hope I can get a little better/faster as time goes on and I get a little stronger and learn how to start. I lifted before I ran these so I don’t know if that matters or not. We’ll just have to see what happens…
In the main lifts probably… Max Effort Work. Long TUT. It still may be a bit less though. I was thinking more alogn the lines of assistance work like single leg squats and such. And the 10 sec. 100 meter example was only one example he said depending on there distance and time of race specifically. He had butch renyolds doing things for 45 secs apparently.
What type of weights were they doing before your recommendations? How has your training affected their times?
Not bad!!! 7 low FAT can get you to US masters national champs…
Originally Posted by QUIKAZHELL
Im kind of with you man.
I never lifted lower body until the past year or two and havent really gotten any improvement in any of my sprints since doing so. My 55 dash has not improved a single hundreth. However my long jump has improved. Not sure if its from the lifting. I do however feel stronger during sprint workouts and not as sore the next day. My lower body has gotten much stronger and I added 1.5 inches to my before skinny legs. But no significant improvement in the sprints.
I have a similar experience with lifting, i got my 1rmax deadlift 240kg, backsquat 220kg and bench 150kg yet I found it had no crossover to my sprints, my standing long jump was consistently in the 3.50m so power wasn’t a issue. Frankly i was training with olympic lifters who where Olympians and i had a stronger first and second pull then all of them and when it came to vertical jumping i had at least 3 inches of all of them.
Now I train at 10reps at 100kg for both deadlift and squats and don’t bench more then 80kg combined with high volumes of intensive tempo and within a month my 200 has improved by 1 second.
I have reviewed most of the science, and there is no definitive proof that high intensities and low volume strength training elicits the best training for sprinters. The only arguments people present is based purely on theory. JAP studies of high intensity strength protocols have resulted in diminished performance capacity for up to 8 weeks. Studies on felines when testing maximal strength showed elevated CK levels in blood indicating muscular damage.
The key in running fast is having a holistic training system that allows for optimal regeneration for speed work , high intensity olympic lifting isn’t part of the equation .
Sharmer,
You have some sick numbers! A 3.50m SLJ. Jesus.
What is you height weight and PR’s on the track?
So you lift at around 50-60% for 10 reps?
What exactly does you weight program look like? And what were you doing before?
How did you feel before during your track workouts and the next day compared to how you feel now?
176cm 170 pounds or 77kg
I used to run 10.8 ( e) electric as a 16-17year old, 200m 21.9-22.2 , I did ten years of the wrong thing plus a very sore achillis if anything I went backwards except for the occasional good run for the 100m. I would say my SLJ is consistent in the 320-330 range at the moment and vertical at 85cm-88cm range. In terms of the weight programs its almost body builder reps and volumes, I don’t train at 50-60% in the weight room unless I am really tired, I stay at 70% for 10 reps so it hurts like hell on squat day, deadlifts is easier.
Before a typical weight day was 3x3 @80%
clean pulls
power cleans
b/squats
power jerk
Now it would be
back squats 10x60,80,100,140kg
bench 10x60,70,80,80,80 kg
b/n press 10x 40,40,40 kg
upright rows 10x30,30,30 kg
vertical jumps 3x 5 reps
Before I would feel more explosive however I was very up and down, now i feel less explosive but stronger on the track, and i find it easier to do SE or tempo runs. Also i tend to do more a lot more repeat 200s x8 @ 28-26 from 60 second recovery, before when i was doing 3r@ 80% in the gym i couldn’t finish these workouts.
I am a 60/100 meter specialist, and use the system, which Charlie has described as the “British System” (speed-weights-tempo). For me, for SPP1 for 60, it’s like this:
4X4X60, rest 3min/8min
rest
weights
tempo
6X60 accel rest 8 min OR 5X50 accel + 2X60 (accel + maintain)
weights
tempo
For SPP2, it will use the 80m and slit 120’s that Charlie has mentioned, so
2X3X80 rest 8 min/15 min
rest
weights
tempo
3X30 flying + 2X60 accel
weights
tempo
I started last year with 3 speed/se workouts per week like most others, but went to the above method late last year and got better results, thus I’m continuing it this year. I’ve also learned that I get better results in the gym if I take my rest day right after split runs.