Can 4x2 & 4x4 relay splits tell you anything about what you might run in an open 400 or 200?
At a meet I ran two week ends ago, I ran 4 events in this order (keep in mind that the competition wasn’t that great so I was never pushed in any of these races)
first I anchored our 4x1
next I ran a 500 in 1:06, reason I ran so slow is because with 200 meters left my shoe laces came loose and my shoe was about to come off, I was well ahead of everybody so I just cruised that last 200m
next I ran the 4x2 (with short notice and not much of a warm up, apparently one of guys tweaked his groin, so I had to fill in for him)… I split 21.4, I was 2nd leg and I had to stay in my lane the whole time, the guy I handed off too split 20.9 but he got to cut in
last event I ran was the 4x4, I ran 1st leg and I split 48.7, there were five teams including mine in lanes 2 thru 6, I was in lane 2 and I made up the stagger on all the other teams before we even finished the first 100m
that was all one meet, our next meet is on March 6 which means I would have 3 good weeks of training in before my next meet in which I’ll run the 4x1, 4x4, and my first open 400 and maybe 200 of the year
what should I expect to run in the 400 and 200?
another question regards the 4x4, are first leg splits usually slower than what you’d run in the open? if so, by how much? what would you guys say the average is?
4x200 - add about .7 to get your time, flying and everything
the 4x400 - since you are out of blocks, it would be pretty much the same. Although the first leg is a little shorter than 400 (approx. 395m depending on where the baton is changed).
If you run one of the other legs in the 4, u would add .7-ish as well
Hold on cowboys! There are liars, damn liars- and relay splits! The problem is, where Olympic and WC splits are taken automatically from zone to zone, most splits are taken from stick to stick, which may be a different distance.
Splits can be very unreliable, especially when coaches want to favour their own athletes in team settings. Always be suspicious where one athlete has an unusually fast split when bookended by slow ones- it’s likely someone else “inherited” some of their time. Get your time from an individual event!
I find myself always having to do damage control when a fellow “coach” wants to report to so many kids of the world class splits they just turned in and let the kids know about reality. Unless you are in a helicopter(or some other unrealistic alternative) and can really see where the passes are made in the zones how can these coaches tell kids with a straight face that they just ran a time (and for what distance?), even with a flying start that is so far beyond the realm of possibility. I know they mean well but it really does not help the kid when his open times are not even in the same ballpark and he does not understand why. Unless you have cameras or some high tech method of measuring accurately it can’t be done. Only the 4x4, 4x8 and any other relays where there is a common exchange zone and the coach can time the baton when it crosses the line regardless of which athlete has the stick to ensure each run is the same distance for each athlete and not the 4x1 where it might become 90m+110m etc. as CF alluded to.
I think they are all at the line otherwise the first leg is short-if the second leg is timed when he recieves it and he gets it at the earliest legal point, he might be timed for 410m . On most tracks that I’m aware of the start line for the 400m in lane one is common with the finish line(I think this is right) and lane two and beyond is further out. Certainly the first leg is at a disadvantage since he does not get a flying start. On a two turn stagger you time the baton when it crosses the middle of the exchange zone and the exchange is in a common zone. When it’s a three turn stagger you should also time the stick(from first to second legs) when it reaches the middle of the exchange zone though now, of course, the exchange will be staggered and not in a common zone.
Pioneer I agree, but I don’t have a problem taking splits for any of the relays. I know where the actually 100m starts for each individual leg for the 4x1. And If you stand in the bleachers,(up high of course) at the finish line you’ll be able to see all of the points clearly. And since I usually tape most of these races, I get to go back and check. And i’m usually right to a few 1/100 for each leg. I’ve done it so many times, and I never go by the exchange, like i said I know where the marks are. But I do agree that coaches tend to give inaccurate splits to there athletes. Most of the time it’s like you say. They aren’t in a good position to see, and on top of that they start and stop the split at the wrong time.
Treble, I guess you time the baton when it reaches the middle of the zone just like the other relays to ensure same distances for each leg and how do you convert(or do you?) to get an idea of what the athlete ran in relation to a flat/open time? Many meets we go to there is hardly a high enough place to get a really good observation point though at some meets we certainly could. Thanks.
4x1, every one can be timed for 100m. Even 1st leg. The only time the 1st leg runs less than that, is if he or she ran up on the 2nd leg. But if the exchange goes smooth, 1st leg will be the only person to run exactly 100m. 2nd leg split starts where the 300hdls would start at. So no matter where he or she gets the baton, the split wouldn’t start until that runner hits that line. Which also means the 1st leg split wouldn’t end until that point either. 2nd leg split would end at the 200m start line, and thats where the 3rd leg split would start. Even though the total distance for each leg after 1st would be 120m(including the acceleration zone) the splits would never start until the runner hits the designated line on the track. Usually on most tracks, the 100m start line runs right across the middle of the last exchange zone, which makes it easy to take the anchor leg split. And a lot of the times the marks for the 300 or 400 hurdles are in the same spot as well. So anchor leg is usually the easiest split to take. And of course the anchor leg split ends at the finish line.
Only split that takes a good eye on the 4x4 is the 1st exchange. Other than lane one, all the splits for the 1st exchange in the 4x4 would start at the line that they would start the 200, if it was run in the opposite direction. Like those days where it’s too windy to run the regular direction. All the other exchanges are easy, just wait til they cross the finish line.
All the legs in the 4x2 have land marks as well except the 1st exchange. Thats usually just based of the judgment of where the middle of the exchange zone is. But the split for the 2nd exchange starts at the 400m start line in each lane. The split for the last exchange starts at the 200m start line.
For the 4x1 I usually just add a second for the straight leg runners. So if a guy runs a 9.85 split, and thats the closest to accurate I can get with my eye and camera, I usually assume that he is capable of running 10.8-10.9 in the 100m depending on what type of runner he is. If he’s late bloomer type 100m runner(Carl Lewis, Donovan Bailey,etc), I would say he could run a 10.9. If he’s more developed, I would say 10.8
1st leg I would just subtract .2 or .3 to make up for the fact that he’s running on a curve. And I also factor in how well the guy runs the curve. If he’s a good curve runner I take off less. And vice versa.
3rd leg I would add a little under a second. So a 10.3 split, might mean he could run in the 11.0 area.
But none of this matters if the exchange is screwed up. I only record the split if the exchange was smooth.
For the 4x4, I would just add a second for every leg after 1st leg. Since they get a running start like you said before the split actually starts, that takes a lot of the stress away from the usual acceleration out of the blocks. Which would leave them with more energy at the end of the race than an open race. Thats just the average, thats i’ve seen. There are some guys who split faster than that compared to their open time. But it’s still a good measuring stick.
That sounds very reasonable. I could probably do it at some meets. I might have to now that other people are giving out 8 flat hundred legs and 19 second 200’s and other common performances to the athletes. If nothing else, I can provide them with something semi-accurate rather than the times one of our guys has been handing out. Thanks again for the detailed answers.
I’ve never had a coach give me a 4x1 split, I don’t think I’d even ask for one just cuz I doubt my coach even bothers timing splits for our 4x1
as far as my 4x2 & 4x4 splits that I ran at that meet, the 4x2 split is actually identical to what I’ve run FAT, the 4x4 is about a second slower than what I’ve run FAT
my coach isn’t the kind of guy who would try and tell one of us that we ran something out of this world, his splits are usually pretty accurate they always add up to what we ran FAT
I thought the 1st leg of the 4x4 is longer than the other ones…I know you don’t exchange the baton at the same place as the other legs, except for lane one you actually go past where you would finish in a normal 400
the other legs also don’t have to stay in their lane the whole time they get to cut in and run in lane 1 the whole way
4x1 splits are pointless and I made a mistake on the 4x4 hand splits.
1st split should be taken from the middle of the zone and the rest are done when the stick crosses the finishline. The reason why the 1st leg of a 4x4 is slower is because it’s not from a rolling start.
The time, relatively speaking, will be longer for the first longer but the distance they are being timed for should be identical to second, third, and fourth legs. On a two turn stagger, all of the passes are made in the same place/zone but on a three turn stagger the exchange zone(and the place where you time when the baton, not the runner reaches the middle of the zone)for the first exchange is staggered-just as you said-and not a common exchange zone as it is for the second and third exchanges.
performances to the athletes. If nothing else, I can provide them with something semi-accurate rather than the times one of our guys has been handing out. Thanks again for the detailed answers.