Thank you man… do u also agree its a PC strength issue ?
Check out the program I laid out according to Kelly B’s recommendation… does it look OK to you ? sets, reps ?
Los, u might be right… my butt is small and my thigh is huge. check out the program few posts above… does it look like i got into kelly’s head ?
Thanks for proving my point.
But anyhow, where else do you see the hip flexor being worked out extensively. I mean the main muscles of sprinting are obviously being worked out in sprinting. But people still choose to use weights and drills for the same muscles. Obviously the hip flexor is an essential part of sprinting and as such I think should be given extra thought especially in an area where this individual already displays a high level of strength in over key muscles for sprinting.
Silencer23,
I don’t know if I agree with Los fully. BTW whats up los? Where have you been? In college I ran a meet at Towson University, and a kid in my heat had just run the fastest time in the world indoors for 60m. He was from UMBC. I still managed to out acc. him for the first 40-45m.
I didn’t do any core at all, with the exception of weighted situps 3x30, once per week. But it doesn’t mean I don’t agree with los. I just think core is way over estimated.
I’ll look over your program. Can you get a tape of your start in a meet?
lol after the last thread, gimme a break.
But anyhow, where else do you see the hip flexor being worked out extensively. I mean the main muscles of sprinting are obviously being worked out in sprinting. But people still choose to use weights and drills for the same muscles. Obviously the hip flexor is an essential part of sprinting and as such I think should be given extra thought especially in an area where this individual already displays a high level of strength in over key muscles for sprinting.
The hip flexors are not a prime mover in sprinting and are often too tight in people. If you’re doing drills and sprints, they’re being worked very significantly. If you’re like many and you do stuff like hurdle walk-overs and various plyos that involve very strong hip flexing action, you most definitely are getting a significant amount of hip flexor work. Heck, if you do strength endurance in the form of running As, you probably are getting more hip flexor work and in a more specific fashion than you could ever get from doing an unweighted leg lift.
If the hip flexors were prime movers and not tight in most people, perhaps there would be some room for specific work, but otherwise, I don’t think so.
LMK what u think about it, getting some mass and strength in my back thigh and butt won’t hurt at all…
My next meet is a 100m\200m on the 16th next month… pretty big meet… so i cant get any videos soon but i can tell u right now that from the one meet i did run, my reaction sucked… maybe its because the damn started kept us 5 seconds in the set position but others still had a quicker start so…
my reaction in general is very fast… its just that in this particular meet i was too nervous and was like " ah, that was the gun, i think i need to go "
Some people have natrually strong body parts. Look at Fasuba - doesnt do many weights at all, but still looks extremely strong. 3x30 weighted sit ups may have been enough for you, where 3x50 every day may be required by someone else. Some people are genetically gifted and there is no need to do many exercises to build up strength - core or not.
Based on what Silencer said about having a small butt - could be a damn good reason why he has difficulty staying down for long periods of time.
There is a video of HSI training up stadium stairs. They walk up the s tadium steps, 3-4 steps at a time, and hold after each step. They are in a bent over position (like the first step out of the blocks). The stadiums are obviously huge, and they repeat this. This enables a strength increase and teaches the body to be able to hold that position.
A good test to see how the core strength is to view a front on video of silencer and see the knee lift (tight hip flexors as well will show up) as well as ground contact time.
Core strength may well be over-rated, BUT, you still need a good solid base of strength.
Are you doing plyometrics and hill sprints and stuff like that? Cause for me weights made a HUGE difference and in such little time at such a young age.
Agreed.
The question is is Silencer doing any of this?
Silencer?
If not I think some additional work on top of adding drills for a period of time would be helpful.
Don’t confuse muscle size with adequacy for sprinting.
There are tons of body builders with big muscles that cant run 12.
And lots of 140 lb speedsters with sticks for legs.
Whats up Los,
I know but in the same video Ato loses to Inger Miller out of the blocks. They were running 1.6-1.7. Thats really not all that fast, as you know being a 10.3 guy.
I wasn’t naturally a good starter, I worked my way into being one. Basically, I spent hours looking at video tape, adjusting angles, trying to figure out what makes someone a good starter. I video taped every possible angle then eliminated each of them one by one.
I agree though, even though I worked hard, there is probably a genetic predisposition for it. Maybe.
I think flavor of luv is on tonight. I’ll be back later!
nope im not doing any of this… but I can do if it helps.
So we agree here that the biggest problem is PC chain and core strength, especially glutes.
kelly offered some pretty interesting exercises… SL deadlift, SL RDL, SL back exntensions, car pulls, car pushes.
How are they best used in a x3 speed template (power, rate and endurance)
Can anybody help me bring those exercises to life by giving them reps\sets, day of the week, duration, etc ?
I’m not sure how to use them and im done guessing, obviously im doing something wrong here so now i’ll ask before i even start.
here is what i want to use again for now
Monday:
Wednesday:
Friday: hip flexor drills
-PC plyos
-23 Sec timer sprints X N
just help me put kelly’s PC chain exercises in there … smartly
ROFL doc sprint. ^^
Track Man… I didn’t really mean it… i was just so upset seeing how im all messed up even though I put my life into it… Now I have an idea what I have to do so i feel a bit better…
Please refer to the post above guys so i can put my mind to sleep knowing i have a plan of attack… i cant possibly sleep without having one … heh;)
Just do some posterior chain dominant exercises, no need to do a ton. Say you add in reverse hypers and good mornings, just make sure when you do them you are cognizant of squeezing your glutes to help complete the movement.
I definitely agree with Kelly that you just don’t look fluid and it seems like you are running more with your anterior than posterior. Something else I’ve seen kelly reccommend is while you walk around through out the day contract your glute for each leg during heel strike to help with glute activation and running through your posterior.
Overall though, I think you just need to do enough to maintain your strength (which takes very minimal effort) and sprint more.
Don’t obsess over staying low, everyone is different, just RUN.
Just a thought maybe others could comment, for bounding I feel like doing straight leg bounds and trying to pull your legs through with your posterior could help you out more than regular bounding. Also, I feel like all those plyos are more quad dominant things, I really think you just need to sprint more.
I don’t personally think many programs need extra hip flexor work (if you are doing relatively high volumes of drills/sprints/weights/etc.) and Mike Young has posted some info that favors a posterior pelvic tilt to sprinting. I’m yet to see a sprinter or track athlete fail that particular hip flexor strength test when healthy.
Mike Boyle’s program utilizes hip flexor work because he simply doesn’t have a lot of the same things sprinters do in his program.
From you, that is an ironic post.
The hip flexor work isn’t necessarily becuase the hip flexors need extra strength for sport, but they need extra strength in some people to optimize the pelvic position so the glutes will fire optimally. It’s all about balances. For example, I can sit down and put a 45 pound weight on my knee, lift it above parallel and hold for 30 seconds…and my hip flexors STILL need strength to optimize my pelvic position.
Check this article illustrating the swayback posture:
http://www.easyvigour.net.nz/fitness/h_gluteus_maxintro.htm
One way to help address that is hip flexor strengthening.
http://www.elitetrack.com/forums/viewthread/5426/#47186
http://www.elitetrack.com/forums/viewthread/4662/P15/#42276
http://www.elitetrack.com/forums/viewthread/3741/#33281
Mike Young seems to believe that it is the posterior tilt that is beneficial rather than an anterior one.
I just don’t see how the extra hip flexor work, especially as you’re describing, is going to not only give an athlete the correct pelvis positioning, but help them engage their glutes and hamstrings more efficiently.
I am still unclear on the hip flexor strengthening, perhaps Kelly, the exercises also help strengthen the lower abs which play a role in anterior pelvic tilt? However, giving correct pelvis positioning then helps engage the glutes and hamstrings more effectively. So hip flexor strengthening itself doesn’t do this, but the results of the exercises Kelly is describing impact positioning which then impact recruitment patterns.
Walking around with any kind of excessive pelvic tilt is not optimal because it means your body is compensating someplace(s) along the kinetic chain. When you sprint, you can’t accelerate with a posterior tilt, but generally once you reach top speed THEN you reach posterior tilt.
There is a huge if in there and that is it will impact recruiting patterns appropriately IF it impacts positioning optimally. I’m not sure you can say that doing some isometric knee holds/raises is going to do that, especially with the dynamic, very rapid nature that the hip flexor musculature plays in sprinting. This is without even mentioning the flexibility and mobility requirements of that area.
Mike Young seems to believe that it is the posterior tilt that is beneficial rather than an anterior one.
I just don’t see how the extra hip flexor work, especially as you’re describing, is going to not only give an athlete the correct pelvis positioning, but help them engage their glutes and hamstrings more efficiently.
The key is still having the mobility to be able to achieve posterior tilt if needed but sprinters definitely have a lean towards anterior pelvic tilt at rest. Scroll down and read pages 8 and 12 of this book:
It all depends on individual balance. Some people with recruitment issues will notice an immediate improvement from tonic work of the hip flexors. Just as some will notice an immediate impact by stretching the same area.
A simple thing to do is walk around and use proprioception…see how your posture influences glute recruitment. Suck the head of your femurs in, let them relax, rotate the hips forward, rotate them back…play around with it.
Another common situation where extra hip flexor work is advantageous is when the TFL and rectus femoris are dominant over the psoas in hip flexion. Not all that uncommon especially among distance runners.
The Guys turn…the guy is certainly not afraid to voice his opinion, as you all know.
The problem is when your write books like 'No Bull to Putting on Muscle" or have frank yang as a poster child on your website (yes it’s true), you probably can’t apply any of the info into REAL WORLD situations. Thats the problem with this site. There is almost nothing original posted here on a daily basis. Coming from people who can’t break 11. No, that doesn’t mean you don’t know what your talking about, but its funny though how the best posters on here seem to be the people who can at least achieve this threshold. Charlie included. When is someone gonna post some information we can actually use, or have some original ideas, instead of googling, or copying info word for word, or quoting some expert. The ideas that are bounced around on this site sound so nice and pretty, but can you actually use them and see results though? That was my problem with Clemson. Ya it sounds good, but put the stuff into practice and you get zero results. Just look at how good Weston high is doing for track.
Silencer you can listen to this nonsense or you can adjust your program and try and experiment with different block settings.
To me if you can run 1.8E the problem is definitely with your reaction. Your probably reacting too late which could be over .20. It doesn’t matter how fast your run in the 10 meters, your already starting with a huge deficit.
Do you want to listen to someone who has a very fast start. Or someone that gets info from books. Seriously. Lets think about this.
The people critizing your starts would definitetly not be able to beat you anyways. Los could, but thats ok, he is one of the few legitimate people here. I would listen to him if your gonna listen to anyone else in this thread.
Not sorry if I offended anyone.
Yours truly, The Guy