First off, I could give a s**t if I have vivid dreams. I was telling you what Ian King said in conversation. As far as your beliefs, I respect them, I just don’t agree. No amount of you telling me it’s B6 is going to sway me. As far as the ZMA vs B6 goes, do a little research on the pricing before you tell everyone what a rip off ZMA is. I am sure most would prefer to pay and extra buck or two for the ZMA. There are people smarter than you and I who believe strongly in it. As for your poor diet theory, I have plenty of bodybuilders who eat great diets and still derive benefit from ZMA. You still haven’t addressed the fact that zinc is important for immune function and that magnesium relaxes muscles. Would you not think that may have a part in the recovery, regeneration, and general well being of an athlete. Last I checked, dopamine and serotonin are not the only components of sound sleep. Done debating this subject. Like I said, we agree to disagree.
By the way, perhaps you should read posts more clearly as I said ZMA was marginally more expensive the B6. I am sure you will say its not equivalent in mg to mg dosages.
Strawman arguments are fun.
That tends to be an important consideration when comparing costs, especially when both have B6 in them. If you want to compare apples to apples (how much B6 you get for the money), it isn’t even a comparison. The ZMA mg for mg is easily 20x more. If you want to compare ZMA to what you could get from buying both cheaper and more readily bioavailable forms of zinc, magnesium, and B6, then you would again be surprised because it is cheaper still.
Price is great and all but there is the idea of proven effectiveness.
I made this example a long time ago on this issue somewhere.
BALCO ran a study showing that a rival copy was not effective. The sporting authorities wanted to harm BALCO, so they ran a study using the rival product (coincidence??), said that it didn’t work and claimed “well ZMA is basically the same, so it doesn’t work either”.
ZMA works as offered, whether you like Victor or not.
I’m not willing to screw around looking for an alternative to what I know works.
for putting a final say so on this topic. Fogelson, nothing wrong with healthy debate. We just don’t agree about ZMA. I respect your opinion, but I respect Charlies more. You keep having success with B6 and I will continue to enjoy the benefits I derive from ZMA.
B6 is in ZMA. :rolleyes:
I know…:)
zma-5 is the ultimate recovery agent
I thinking about trying that. How do you like it as compared to zma
I ordered some more ZMA today… I did think about trying just the B6 but then i reminded myself that even though B6 is way cheaper, there is no Z and M in it. ZMA for life.
I haven’t tried it. I was just notified of its existence.
Actually I got some of this and I get worse sleep on it.
I didn’t like newer version. In fact none of the athletes did too. We stick with original
Snac ZMA…The only one I choose.
I am talking about Snac.
I have recently purchased some Zinc tabs as my current Zinc supply was nearly empty. Before i opened it, i read this thread. So when i looked at the Tabs i bought, seems they are called Zinc Plus. I purchased these from an ALDI store. (small German cheap grocery store) they have them in Major cities in Australia.
Anyway, Ingredients are
Zinc - 125mg
Magnesium - 125mg
Manganese 20mg
Vitamin A - 2500iu
Vitamin B6 - 50mg
Best part, they only cost $6 for 90Tabs
Since taking them:-
Sleep like a baby
Wake up feeling great 
125mg of zinc? seriously? What form?
I would have wondered about the quality of the product, but obviously Boldwarrior is getting great results. Kudos, wish I stumbled onto a bargain every now and then.
125mg of zinc amino acid chelate
(eq 25mg)
Reports on after over 1wk of use
Absolutly fantastic stuff. Sleep is going great, wake up feeling great. And seem to be recovering very well from training.
I think the big part is not if ur diet has enough, its in taking it on an empty stomach before bed. Much like how bromalain works differently on an empty stomach v’s with food.
Also, now it seems i have found nearly all chemists sell ‘zma’ not as ‘zma’ but as either zinc+ or simply as the main ingreadients. Ie, zinc+magnesium+vit B6
And its cheap this way. Like $11 or so.