Ummmm
that last post was number
69
for me
Is that a sign from the ZMA gods?
Ange, you are too cool! 
Too true, hope the gods were kind
I agree with you that diet deficiencies lead to zinc being low. Seeing as about 40% of athletes I have come across have poor diets, some by choice, some by lack of availability of decent food supply. I think this makes it a legitimate concern. Zinc is very important to immune function I think we would agree? Magnesium relaxes muscles, would you agree? I understand B6 pathways. All I am saying is that a supplement like ZMA is very useful for many people. I eat a solid diet, but I still supplement ZMA. Guess what, I sleep better. Seeing as I take a 1cc dose of injectable B6,B9, and B12 weekly, I doubt I am deficient in any B vitamins. Why do I sleep better? I say synergy of ZMA. As far as worrying about how much people save on B6 vs. ZMa, I checked Vitamins Shoppe online. Guess what, B6 cost 13.99 for 100 ct, 100mg. ZMA, 14.99. Not such drastic savings. You have your view of things, and I have mine. You may train athletes or not. I do train many and have gotten fantastic results performance wise. Suffice it to say, we can agree to disagree.
Dreams are one thing but vivid nightmares I could do without. That’s why I quit taking ZMA, although I still take Z and M.
Do you even read what is posted? Or what is in your supplement?
B6 is in ZMA. B6 is the reason why ZMA supplements cause vivid dreams. It does this because of its effects on serotonin. Quite simple.
If you think ZMA is cheaper than B6, you have certain found one of the oddest economic problems to date since ZMA has B6 in it.
Additionally, if you’re taking ZMA so that you have dreams, you should question what your goals are.
First off, I could give a s**t if I have vivid dreams. I was telling you what Ian King said in conversation. As far as your beliefs, I respect them, I just don’t agree. No amount of you telling me it’s B6 is going to sway me. As far as the ZMA vs B6 goes, do a little research on the pricing before you tell everyone what a rip off ZMA is. I am sure most would prefer to pay and extra buck or two for the ZMA. There are people smarter than you and I who believe strongly in it. As for your poor diet theory, I have plenty of bodybuilders who eat great diets and still derive benefit from ZMA. You still haven’t addressed the fact that zinc is important for immune function and that magnesium relaxes muscles. Would you not think that may have a part in the recovery, regeneration, and general well being of an athlete. Last I checked, dopamine and serotonin are not the only components of sound sleep. Done debating this subject. Like I said, we agree to disagree.
By the way, perhaps you should read posts more clearly as I said ZMA was marginally more expensive the B6. I am sure you will say its not equivalent in mg to mg dosages.
Strawman arguments are fun.
That tends to be an important consideration when comparing costs, especially when both have B6 in them. If you want to compare apples to apples (how much B6 you get for the money), it isn’t even a comparison. The ZMA mg for mg is easily 20x more. If you want to compare ZMA to what you could get from buying both cheaper and more readily bioavailable forms of zinc, magnesium, and B6, then you would again be surprised because it is cheaper still.
Price is great and all but there is the idea of proven effectiveness.
I made this example a long time ago on this issue somewhere.
BALCO ran a study showing that a rival copy was not effective. The sporting authorities wanted to harm BALCO, so they ran a study using the rival product (coincidence??), said that it didn’t work and claimed “well ZMA is basically the same, so it doesn’t work either”.
ZMA works as offered, whether you like Victor or not.
I’m not willing to screw around looking for an alternative to what I know works.
for putting a final say so on this topic. Fogelson, nothing wrong with healthy debate. We just don’t agree about ZMA. I respect your opinion, but I respect Charlies more. You keep having success with B6 and I will continue to enjoy the benefits I derive from ZMA.
B6 is in ZMA. :rolleyes:
I know…:)
zma-5 is the ultimate recovery agent
I thinking about trying that. How do you like it as compared to zma
I ordered some more ZMA today… I did think about trying just the B6 but then i reminded myself that even though B6 is way cheaper, there is no Z and M in it. ZMA for life.
I haven’t tried it. I was just notified of its existence.
Actually I got some of this and I get worse sleep on it.
I didn’t like newer version. In fact none of the athletes did too. We stick with original