Just a little case study regarding strength and weights. My progression is as follows:
Year 1:
bodyweight 195lbs
Squat:335lbs
standing 30m:4s
flying 30m: 2.93s
Year 2:
bodyweight:195lbs
Squat: 395lbs
Standing 30m:3.93s
flying 30m: 2.93s
Year 3:
Bodyweight:185lbs
Squat: 435lbs
Standing 30m:3.82s
flying 30m: 2.88s
I always found my squat to have a huge impact on my acceleration but none on my speed.
Double post
at what point in your season did you time the flying 30s? i remember reading somewhere that ones body has an overshoot of muscle fibres converting to the super fast twitch when heavy weightlifting is tapered?
Good to see you here PJ, thanks !
You say basically that fast, weak sprinters do not exist - Even those who supposedly squat 100lbs can probably do 400+ with a few weeks of work, Correct ?
Then again, these 10.0-10.2 skinny guys usually run their first sub 10 under 20 years old, and they ran a 10.6 in their first junior high meet… So while it’s true that they did not squat to get to those times, they also didn’t train a whole lot on the track to run mid 10.
The other non “15 year old freaks” like Ben,Gatlin and Greene actually used the weights to manually become faster and unlock their potential (I assume)
So should those who do not run 10.2 at 16 pay attention to the strength side of the equation a bit more than those who are speed dominant or is there a universal rule ?
Should the natural skinny speedster train and develop in the same way of the force dominant sprinter ?
Thanks, feels good to get rid of the doubts I’ve collected over the past couple years 
I will definitely experiment with volumes to make sure I don’t fry myself but I hate to do little, it feels not “professional” and I end up screwing myself.
Would you call 350m decent volume in SPP MaxS sessions ?
The drag racer has two variables when building his/her motor, horsepower and torque. High torque motors have different gear ratios to high horsepower motors. Building torque (heavy squats) requires a different focus (gears) when sprinting. I suggest Ben was high torque and Charlie managed to use it to the max.
This is not in my words: a copy and paste.
Here’s a simple way to visualize torque: Imagine holding a 1-pound weight straight out, with your arm parallel to the ground. My arm measures about two feet from shoulder to wrist. If I hold a 1-pound weight straight out, the torque my shoulder experiences is roughly 2 foot-pounds (2 feet times 1 pound). If I were to hold a 10 pound weight in my hand, then the torque on my shoulder would be roughly 20 foot-pounds (2 feet times 10 pounds).
Now think of this turning force applied to a wheel, such as if a lever was attached to the center of an automobile wheel. The more force you apply on that lever, the more torque you apply to the wheel, the more readily the wheel turns, and the faster the car starts moving. See where I’m going with this? Torque is a measure of the ability of an engine to do work. It’s a component of, but not the same as, the (horse) power of the engine, which is the rate at which work can be done.
i don’t think there has ever been a 60m guy or even a 100m guy with scrawny legs (hips) proportionate to his body. That said, it doesn’t really matter what he actually can squat, because his 60m times are a testament to his strength! That is the true test! Not the squat!
I can tell when a strong muscle guy is starting to get tired, or tries too hard when running, it looks like he is trying to Bench Press his way through to the end…
I know a lot of Fairly strong dudes - Not one of them can run sub 12sec 100m…
IN regards to what Sady was saying before - Diesel cars generally have High Torque, Lower Horsepower. Might not go fast - but put a trailer on with a heavy boat, and it’s barely slowed down.
Put the same Trailer on a Low Torque, high horsepower high speed car - it has a hard time
Double posting
Nice analogy sady and Mark. I realize that there are a lot of sprinters that are big yet can’t squat much, and others can squat a ton.
So that only shows (using my own defective logic) that different sprinters have different needs.
I’m not sure if ben could be equally as fast with a 100lb squat.
Maybe some engines then, sady, have torque insufficiency and need to train with more focus on that side of the equation ?
The light tendony guys wouldn’t benefit much from squatting more, but the heavy tall guys like Gatlin or Chambers make great use of their gym strength.
I can think of a few:
Kim Collins
Said Nudure
Nick Smith
Usually all my testing is done pre-season because in season the competitions are testing. So it can be difficult to tell. These values are also seasonal bests in testing and get tested a few times throughout the season. I am always very close to my pb when we test.
Is it safe to say that sprinter have the ability to be very strong if they apply themselves due to their CNS. So the sprinters that are strong are the ones that incorporate heavy lifting in their training.
I think someone else mentioned this. They are strong because they are fast and they lift heavy weights. Not the other way around. So a strong sprinter is only an indication of what type of training they do. And if any fast sprinter applied themselves to a strength training program they would be quite strong. They have the raw ability to be good at these things naturally, just like sprinting.
Now with that being said, would a natural inclination towards weights make it a more worthwhile stimulus, the same, or less compared to athletes of lower qualifications? I would say less and would compare it to the volume and stress of speed for lower athletes. It takes way more speed volume to stimulate the CNS for slower athletes, the same could be said for the weight room. So maybe all weight training aspects are as effective for higher athletes but in the same proportions as their speed work? I’m just throwing stuff out there for discussion.
double post
All sprinters need a certain base level of strength, or torque.
It’s also easy to tell if you have enough, or are lacking.
Check out your angles at the start.
Are you deep (chest low to the ground) on take off?
Are you deep AND straight body lines?
If you are, you’re strong enough.
If you’re not, you need more strength.
You would also need things other than Squats
such as
Mediball squat dives
roll back and dive
Hops and dive
Plyro’s
Dude - Your legs are huge - you don’t need much in the way of Squats - a few heavy sets, low reps. Keep it very simple - or your legs will blow up too big.
i would argue that. all three of those guys pass the eye test
Without actually seeing the whole package it is all speculation.
If we go back to a drag car there are a lot of things that need fixing beside the motor, first you get the motor to a middle stage then work on suspension, gearing etc. Then go back to the motor and do the whole cycle again.
Leg speed can be improved(horsepower), strength(torque), gearing(stride length) balance(suspension).
A balance needs to be worked out between strength and leg speed, without proper balance the stride length is shot to pieces and the whole exercise gets frustrating.
Interesting.
So to recap your points-
-Speed improves strength, even if one could use being stronger in the squat (not genetic freak).
)Could I do this as compromise ?
AM - Clean, 4x3
PM - Speed
PM2 - Squat heavy, go home.
I don’t think that’s the point
The point should be about squating heavy, do what is heavy to YOU. Forget about Bens no’s.
If you can improve your current best by 10% over the next 12months, then GREAT. That is 10kg on a 100kg squat. Over 10yrs that will be a HUGE squat.
Make sure you can convert them squats into power - ie. Plyro’s - Jumps etc
As for your set up - I see no real issue with your original idea
Am - weights
Pm - speed / power (plyro’s, jumps)
No need to split your weights into 2x day.
Why don’t you also try that for one month, and the following for 1 month
Am - speed / power
Pm - weights
leg speed can be improved just like leg strength can.
everything has a limiting factor, eg ask almost any athlete how long ago was their last pb, or how long has it been since their bench weights have gone up.
you are saying you have the motor at a middle stage now work on suspension, gearing etc. Then go back to the motor and do the whole cycle again.
what do you want to do first, gearing, balance or legspeed?
I think Charlie says somewhere you don’t do the same program year after year.
have a look at this (drag car link),a 2 litre rotary over 400m. not long ago the talk was can they do 9 seconds.
Sprinting always comes first, where do you feel you are lacking torque, the start, 10m, 20m etc. What portion of the muscls is being used at that distance, do your weights at that rom, what exercise works best. you do not have to copy the movement just train the right muscles. ask a bodybuilder if you are not sure. get someone who knows what they are doing to have a look at you sprinting. In the welding game the clowns with the degrees usually end up sweeping the floor, they may know all the theory but can’t weld for shi!. )
Why not start with 3x10 @80% in the morning and the speed in the afternoon. Weights finish before 7.00am and speedwork starts 10 hours later.
in australia you have to have a 10 hour break from work otherwise you resume work at a higher pay rate: some scientific study done by the union I was told.