White athletes should forget the 100m?

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101

Industrialization has accelerated its acquisition. Wealth is the VALUE created from limited resources. Efficiency has allowed greater utilisation, but there is a limit. The potential for greater wealth is there but who holds that wealth at any one particular time is transient over time because of trends. If you are able to create that trend or control it then you can delay the transition as it moves from one country to the next, from continent to continent and so on, if you control the means for acquisation of wealth then you always are… wealthy.

Resources are limited wealth is an outcome of adding value to resources.

Do not mistake wealth for resources, resources are limited. Oil is a resource for example, its value increases according to supply and demand. If supply; is limited value goes up those who sell it become wealthy. Wealth may increase due to efficiency and demand and supply factors, but resources are…limited. Now if those who have many resources that are in demand are allowed to price at a higher market rate then you the buyer who in the past bought at a lower rate will be giving up your wealth and adding to the sellers wealth.

Now, in PROPER free market economics where the protagonists are supposed to be FREE agents. Laissez-faire is supposed to rule. wealth is supposed to ebb and flow without check. Suppliers and buyers are supposed to accept the going price… This is not the case; when an African country goes to sell its products the free market somehow is lost in the small print, the buyer fully dictates the price. Thats whats going on. The wealth that should be acquired by the sellers (Africans) is not and the buyer (Western countries) becomes evermore wealthy…and they (Africans) are portrayed as unintelligent because of their situation.

Think about it this way; when everyone is wealthy then its called inflation; things then become worthless because everyone is a millionaire.

You are now just like everyone else, so…you would not be really wealthy. So what do you do; you keep others from competing with you; or gaining so that you are always wealthy and you also acquire their wealth as well…

I am sure that answers your query.

THATS IT NO MORE…

102

Can you please post the sources of these African countries being denied buyers are market price or slightly better than market price? An not an isolated incident, but for a very large industry or commodity?

Resources change by the day (at a micro level), so it is really hard to say that. You start educating the pop. and your resources go up. Is America keeping education from Ghana as well? I don’t exactly see them on the forefront of the technological advances in… anything that I know of right now. Maybe they have developed some agricultural things? Not sure about that, maybe you know.

103

Ohh my god. a few Americans on some chairs ( called the American Government ) have been able to wipe away all the truths from the head of American people. If I have enough time I can give you clear examples of Americans do to us Africans. But its countless stuff. All you need to do is come down here and watch. I don’t want to talk much about this. I’m not going to change the world. But You know what? Its been America’s turn to lead the world after they killed 1/4 a million japanease citizens with the " Little boy " And " Fat Man " atomic bombs. :mad: … I heard it was so hard to beat the soldiers. So it seems logic that they do what they did. :confused: … Look else where today and see what they do to countries that don’t listen. Tell me they found chemichal weapons in Irag. After all what happened. They say. Oh sorry. It was a mistake. Ohh Sorry, but we can’t leave now. Ohh… We care about democracy. You know what. They can just take the oil and leave. That would still be good for the Iraqi people. But it will take some time to suck all that oil up. And what about Afghanistan. Tell me that Osama bin laden could hit down the twin towers. Lets see how that can happen. So they put in a scenario that Osama used that is so stupid. It can be a cartoon but the kids will think its a stupid cartoon. Then they turn around on Islam and say that it is the religion of terorrizm. How many people here know muslims. I am one my self. And it is forbidin in our religion to kill citizens. Or hurt them whatever religion they follow. Even if they didn’t believe in god we shouldn’t touch them and in fact. We are told to treat christians and jews nicley and live with them in peace just like our prophet did. The only time we are told to fight is when we are forced to drop our religion and stop practicing it. But now the americans have been able to switch people’s attention to Islam as being for terrorists. And the truth is that its all about peace. Islam in arabic is derrived from the word PEACE. And even though they have been able to make it look like it is today. And you tell me they don’t do nothing. Ok. Let me be on your side then for everyone to be happy.

America is peacfull and nice and helpfull.
Africans are stupid and dump and can’t make anything out of the help.
Islam is for terrorists. ( then I’m a terrorist!! take care this message contains a virus!! :confused: )
White guy can run fast
Black guy can run slow.
White rules
Black surves.
What else do you want?? What ever you want is true. Just LEAVE US ALONE… And get out of our lands!!

104

A lot of facts being brought to the table there for sure…
I won’t even bother at this point.

105

First off, I dont know many people at all in America that think Islam is bad, and I think the media does a good job seperating extremists, and telling the public that it is not Islam but individuals who create terror.

Second we were sticking to economics and davan asked for an example of africans being denied market on a large scale, you were able to rant and rave for a good deal but didnt provide one example of what we were actually talking about.

Martn I dont know what you were trying to get at with the oil example? And oil does not have value added, its a commodity, and its price is largely fixed by opec. however prices have risen do to the increased demand from the asian markets.

“wealth is an outcome of adding value to resources”

So brunei one of the wealthiest countries in the world, what did they do add gold dust to their oil or something?

Oil is not laissez faire.

The point of laissez faire is not for everyone in the world to accept a going price both on the supply side and the demand side. Price is set by what a supplier is willing to produce, combined with what customers are willing to pay. More demand and less supply = higher price.

Therefore if the US refuses to buy from africa as you say without lowering the prices to nothing, nothing is stopping the rest of the world from offering to buy the same good at one cent more.

When everyone is wealthy it is not called inflation. Wealth can rise and inflation stay stagnate. Inflation occurs when a countries currency’s purchasing power decreases, not when people become wealthy.

So those other large scale areas where africa was denied buyers?

What kind of economic background do you guys have martn and flying duck, just asking?

106

hijacked thread anyone? no but even though this his gone way way off topic it is still a great discussion about important issues.

107

I said thats it, I am tired of this. Even if I did provide examples you would STILL query it. The answer is no because I am tired of this debate now… move on or educate yourself go find the info its there in the public domain. Get in touch with Bono the singer or something… he will give you concrete examples maybe if it comes out of his mouth you will believe it. Tell you what do a search on “make poverty history” see what comes up I have not bothered but I am sure you can find examples to accelerate your learning.

http://www.usafricaonline.com/africag8.ezekiel.html

http://www.ifpri.org/pubs/ib/ib22.pdf#search="africans%20not%20given%20market%20price%20for%20products"

108

lol come on martn, I have asked for examples in previous posts and it went missed or something–that is really all I have been after because you aren’t the first person I have heard this from and they too didn’t provide me any specific examples.

Bono… I won’t even get on the subject of him as he isn’t relevant to this issue.

109

Davan your responses to my arguements have at best been like pissing in the wind… stop being so smug and ignorant, get educated find the info yourself… read the books that I have referenced.

110

I just went to the site you referred to and it is one of the biggest jokes I have seen. Not once did it cite any specific examples or even references to what it is talking about. Also, it expects countries to completely forgive debt. A related site wants the US gov’t to give a portion (correction greater portion) to African countries… again no specific information or situations, just rhetoric. I am honestly trying to figure out some of the specific instances you are talking about…

Get educated you tell me and don’t provide me examples–it should be easy since it is so common (according to you) and so wide spread. It’d be much easier to type an example than to do this.

111

Still looking on that site and the only specifics I am seeing is how much aid is currently given/when/conditions of aid, etc. No specific examples of buyers refusing African goods on the free market @ market prices.

EDIT:
“Rich countries and the institutions they control must act to cancel all the unpayable debt of the poorest countries. They should not do this by depriving poor countries of new aid, but by digging into their own pockets and providing new money. The task of calculating how much debt should be cancelled must no longer be left to creditors concerned mainly with minimising their own costs. Instead, we need a fair and transparent international process to make sure that human need takes priority over debt repayments.”

So they want to cancel all debt and to allow for more, new debt to build… I see where this is going.

112

Davan… of course you are right your arguements are tight, you know what you are tallking about. America trades ate fair market value. Your country does not sell arms to corrupt gvernments and prop then up… and so on and on.

113

I am sure that happens (and I am sure the others are equally as corrupt, as we have seen in the past). That doesn’t answer my question that I am still looking for right now.

From the ONE organization:
[i]"Why ONE percent?

Americans have always been a generous people – just look at the outpouring of support for the victims of the tsunami. Yet, most Americans would be surprised to learn that less than ONE percent of the federal budget is currently marked for fighting AIDS and poverty around the world. Surveys show people think it is over 15%.

ONE percent of the U.S. budget is approximately $25 billion, and redirecting that much more money will take time. Directed to honest governments, private charities and faith-based organizations, this support would provide the tools and resources they need to really make a difference.

By directing an additional ONE percent of the U.S. budget toward providing the most basic needs – and fighting the corruption that wastes precious resources –we can help transform the futures and hopes of an entire generation in the poorest countries. If the U.S. were to devote an additional ONE percent – one cent more for every dollar spent by the federal government–to helping the world’s poorest people help themselves, America would demonstrate a commitment to the Millennium Goals, an internationally agreed upon effort to halve global poverty by 2015."

"Isn’t our government doing more than anyone else? Don’t Americans give more than other countries?

Development assistance reflects the best American tradition of compassion and generosity. Americans could lead the world in saving millions of lives and restoring stability in the poorest countries in the world, especially Africa. The U.S. has shown bold commitment to Africa and has roughly doubled assistance in the last four years, yet even this funding must continue and expand if we want to make poverty history. Current funding to fight global poverty and disease is about $19 billion total, with about $4 billion of that going to Africa. $19 billion sounds like a lot of money, but it represents less that 1% of the federal budget–currently only .75%. To put this in focus, Americans spend $42 billion on diet and health books each year, almost three times what America gave in official development assistance to the world’s poorest people in 2003."
[/i]
Instead of asking for donations of course, they are asking for the gov’t to give money, which means higher taxes or all or gov’t programs cut. This money, of course, will not be paid back in any way and hatred will not stop (as we can see, giving tens of billions is not enough to sway public opinion, so we should do more).

114

http://www.africaaction.org/resources/issues/trade.php

Read expand that brain loose the ignorance…

Expand your mind, this maybe a tad too heavy for you to understand but I AM SURE you will succeed I am rooting for you…

http://www.bicusa.org/bicusa/issues/WB_Trade_in_Africa_Fall04_Finaldraft.pdf#search="world%20bank%20determines%20african%20trade%20policies"

http://www.multiworld.org/m_versity/articles/globaf.htm

115

The irony of that first statement…
The first link wasn’t bad, but nothing like what you were saying in your previous posts. It estimates that the cotton industry may have lost $400million over the course of two years. Relative to the size of the economy, that isn’t much. Going along with Africa’s biggest export to America being over $20billion, it is almost insignificant financially, but thank you for finally providing something with an example. In reality though, people can still trade with who they want and subsidies affect every other country, not just Africa. I think worrying about other things would be more important than cotton, which has very little value relative to other commodities (ie oil, which has made many countries very wealthy).

Here was a quote that relates to this topic in the second link (although citing is some of the poorest and shady I have seen in a while):
“This is evident from the fact that oil exploration has negatively affected the environment of the Niger Delta and, the Ogoni people in particular, leading to a worsening socio-economic situation for the people. In fact, more than 2 million barrels of oil are explored from the Niger Delta daily (Human Rights Watch, 1999).” The author did not go into any more detail on this matter.

http://www.commissionforafrica.org/english/consultation/consultation-pdfs/folaadeola-pdfs/prof_owasanoye.pdf#search="inequalities%20in%20trade%20between%20africa%20and%20the%20west"

I’ll save people here from spending too much time reading through the whole thing. The end point (takes a while to get to) is that the author thinks Africans should close their economies.

The author states that the countries were tricked into believing the new communication technology (specifically the internet) is not worthwhile or beneficial for their people and even suggests that it is better to be kings of the jungle than a part of the world economy. Africa can do that, but then they wouldn’t receive any of the aid they want. The article didn’t make sense in some parts and contradicted itself (unless of course, the author believes the thing Africa should do period is cut off trade with the West period). The bias is also quite clear and check out the citations (he cites people’s opinions multiple times and people not in a position of power at that).

116

As I can see Davan did your little homework assignment, so I will not bother as I have actual economic assignments from phd’s, international ones at that to do.

However, I gather your point is still africa is poor because america wont let it be rich. So america should lift its tariffs and other trade barriers so africa can compete, how about instead if america and europe are so shitty and have such high tariffs and wont let africa compete with all it has to offer…hmmm…lets think, why dont african countries lower their tariffs between each other so they can trade atleast within itself instead of relying on other countries/continents.

"African tariffs are some of the highest in the world. While OECD countries cut tariffs from an average of 23.7 percent to just 3.9% in the 20 years from 1983, Sub-Saharan Africa only cut its tariffs from 22.1% to 17.7%. And astonishingly, many African countries impose tariffs on the import of medicines, and even Tanzanian-made anti-malaria bednets. These are, effectively, killers tariffs.

While the world as a whole cut tariffs by 84 percent between 1983 adn 2003, Africa only reduced theirs by 20%. For most Africans, it is harder to trade with those across African borders than with distant Europeans and Americans. In 1997, the World Bank found that countires in Sub-Saharan Africa imposed an average tariff of 34% on agricultural products from other African nations, and 21% on other products."

It goes on to say that roughly 50% of trade in North America is intracontinental as well as in Europe, while only 10% of trade is intracontinental in Africa.

I got this from A Pan-African Trading Area
contributed by Andrew Mitchell.

117

Pope-
As you know, I will have plenty of that in a few weeks from some Laureates myself ;).

The links were worthless for the most part and either hide the truth or put it in small print or are completely false in the first place. Nothing really substantial, even in the half-truths.

118

My father was the head a program that Virginia State university was doing joint with an Egyptian University. And the program was to teach the MBA here in Egypt with the aid of American docs. And everything was going well. Untill Hezbullah decided to have a fight with Israel. Then they decided to quit and forget about the idea because its " Not safe here "… I don’t know what we have to do with any of this Israel Lebanease stuff. We have a peace treaty with Israel. And Lebanon is an arab friendly country. So what do we have to do with all this. They just pulled out… One way in which they affect our education. You might say they have the right to feel safe. But come on. Its not about safty. Its a bit more I guess.

119

You do economics? And you can’t string together a counter arguement that has a semblance of credibility?

Shocking…

Pan-Africanism, we tried that you scuppered it… so you could make more profits…

120

You say they are false, why don’t you provide some evidence to counter this…

Who are you to say they are false? Back up your statements… Tony Bliar (that American lacky) even he doesn’t think its false other wise he would not have pushed for the G8 to remove trade barriers…