Edit, posted same post twice.
Barry’s protocol? Is this something other athletes have done regularly before?
Are you just meaning “complex training” in general or heavy deads and drop jumps, or 1 rep max combo’s or what with this Barry guy?
I wouldn’t rate squats followed by Tuck jumps in the same leegue as deads and drop jumps combo when it comes to c.n.s stress, if you are referring to general combo work.
Im hoping this thread to be a bit original on the “extreem stakes” when it comes to max c.n.s stimuli.
I’m afraid I am not following you anymore…
I never said I favour one protocol or another,nor I understand Goose’ s reasoning about DL choices.
The thread is about “Highest CNS stimulus”,and I only provided an example of how a pretty high stimulus can be achieved height and breadth (a la Charlie) wise.
To tell the truth,to me what makes most sense in this discussion so far is the reference to Adrenaline,which might well be worth discussing…
You got that it was a silly idea (as intended) but you want to ascertain the exercise that will fry your CNS the most and do that every 10 days and expect that will enhance your sprinting 
I am really confused here :o
At what point does something change from stimulating to annihilating?
What is the purpose of this thread? Is it theoretical or for application? I gather from later posts it is for application to improve sprinting. If so why would you bang yourself up as much as you can in the weight room every 10 days? If you are following a CF style program and philosophy you seem to have missed some critical points.
The best way I can relate my understanding of the CNS is that it is like a cup. You never want it to overflow! This means you should always play it safe. You are better to slightly under train than over train. Supercompensation may not be as great but it will still be ok. Never go for the great super workout as the best possible outcome from it is a return to normal. There is no need to see the ultimate levels of an athlete in training.
The volume of each training session needs to be managed at the time. If there is an extraordinary speed session you may need to drop weights altogether as including the weight session may cause the cup to overflow thereby stalling, or even regressing progress. Progression is vital. If it is a high CNS day you adjust the volume as required to reach the appropriate CNS limit, conversely if the day is low CNS ensure it stays that way. Never have back to back high CNS days.
Re Gymnastic exercises Kelly B has a new article on using them for lower body
http://www.higher-faster-sports.com/singlelegpower.html
Two points here - (1) it must be prepared for it and (2) secondly the monitoring of the effects as the stresses are applied.
Maybe I’m too tired and cranky to post, but –
What is the point of this question?
Just because an exercise feels “hard” does not mean that it has significant impact on the CNS.
Flying sprints feel pretty easy as you are doing them, but you will quickly fry your CNS if you do them too often.
jesus i didnt know someone could rep at that weight RAW with no belt. This guy would scare powerlifters.
Anyone ever found competition to be far more draining than training, even when performances are comparable? I’ve seen evidence to suggest that the sympathetic NS is activated a day or perhaps longer before the event in preparation for the big day. Certainly, the higher levels of arousal can help (or hinder) increase performance (intensity). I remember John Berardi saying somewhere how he could get people stronger immediately just by getting them reved up before they lift. Just having him there (to impress) would help them raise thier game.
[i]Lifting weights we are achieving the contraction of a certain muscle which grows and which is needed for the weights to be lifted and we are changing its structure. So during training if we are using maximum amount of weight and only a few attempts to lift that weight, that means that we are activating this whole system, which will achieve the growth of that muscle and its maximum performance.
So by stimulating with adrenalin those molecules, they bring more calcium into the cell. By doing that, they are making the genetic repressor dysfunctional, which means it cannot enter the DNA chain, and so it means that it can perform up to its maximum. But this is because of the adrenaline which is made during training sessions. Adrenaline is released only when we are doing the maximum amount of weight. In order to achieve this higher level of adrenaline release, we used to do Monday, Wednesday and Friday, training sessions in front of an audience, which resembled the situation of a real competition, when you have the lights, the audience, the crowd, the judges, and the emotional factor also plays a very important role, it stimulates the release of adrenalin. So you performed up to your maximum three times a week, almost in competition circumstances, which releases the adrenaline needed, which makes this whole mechanism function, which enables a certain muscle group to grow and perform better.
…
So, from the above, it becomes clear that the changes in the body depend only on the level of functioning and therefore during the training sessions, where great tonnage is reached, more significant
physiological changes should be expected. Practically, this is not obtained. The physiological changes are greater after competitions, especially when they are responsible for the lifting of 3 - 7 tons. After competition the athletes are more exhausted, with more manifested psychopathy, with diminished working capacity.
These facts show that during a competition other factors are also acting, which are related to the athletic competitive abilities. In our opinion, that is the factor which appears in putting the body under rather difficult extreme conditions, called in our times the stress factor. The stress factor is connected with emotional excitement, agitation or fear, anger, aggressiveness. etc. It is known that in the body of an animal or a human being put into an unusual ambience of extreme conditions a series of physiological
reactions takes place, which represent a direction to conforming to these conditions. In those reactions the important role is played by the sympathetic nervous system (SNS), with Cannon and Ortelli being the first who studied and investigated the role of the SNS and the reactions of individuals exposed to stressful conditions in the laboratory.
According to the Bulgarian scientist, Prof. Sheytanov, the SNS acts directly through the substance noradrenaline and through stimulating the adrenaline secretion from the suprarenal gland. He was studying the latter as a homologue of the postganglion neuron of the CNS and, therefore, in such cases we can speak about excitation of the adrenal or sympathic system. According to him, the normal level of adrenaline in blood is approximately 0.5 nanograms per ml. In the conditions of high stress this quantity may increase by up to 500 ml, i.e. to increase up to 50 times. By means of hard physical work and other
stressing agents, not only cathecholamines are secreted, but also a series of other biologically active substances. These biologically active substances, including cathecholamines and hormones, as we said before, participate in the adaptation of the body to the demanding conditions.
They take part in different metabolites of tissue building and power providing. E.A.Gromov. et al., and many other scientists have found out in their research that, during a competition, the athlete’s body
produces bigger quantities of biologically active substances. This is explained by the fact that the small volume loads connected with great efforts, accompanied by high arousal, cause more significant
physiological changes in the body of the athletes than continuous, large volume loads which involve little effort or psychological strain. Based on these circumstances, we identify the competitive element in training as the main factor by which the weightlifters’ bodies will be exposed to unusually stressful
conditions. We are applying the competitive element in the training process by means of a good arrangement of the training process and by means of the assignments of the training plans.
…
The arranging of regional tournaments, national, local tournaments, individual, and other kinds of competition events undoubtedly put the bodies of the competitors under difficult, extreme conditions, where the stress training factor is acting. A while ago a series of competitions was avoided in order to avoid disturbing the preparation rhythm. Continuous and significant restorative periods were carried
out before every competition. This led to a diminishing of the total loading quantity and delayed the development of athletic achievements, which is one reason why massage and other restorative means need to be used skilfully. The new principles in preparation are connected with participation in various important competitions without the use of restoration. Further, we included in the training activity the conscious element, where every 15 days we organized control training sessions under competition conditions and surroundings, without referees and audiences.
From practice and the scientific approach it is proved that adaptive reactions are stronger when the physical effort is exerted under conditions of excitement or high arousal. Under conditions of
physical strain, the metabolism in the working organs of athletes is significantly different.
[/i]
Abadjiev
Prilepin’s Chart
By Tim Kontos
For www.EliteFTS.com
“You also should take into account that when the power lifts are done for a max move, they are done much slower than with the Olympic lifts. This can be more taxing on the CNS.”
Does amount of motor unit recruitment = amount of CNS stress? That is the question.
Full article here
http://www.elitefts.com/documents/prilepins_chart.htm
The above refers to the effect of longer TUT and slower eccentric phase
You raise some good points an I will therefor answer them from my perspective;
I have tried allmost every training modality/phillosophy over the years. However, It quickly becomes apparent where the platue’s are in many training principles. For example, this last 2 months I have concentrated only on sprint work, a la “kenderis”, so called “greek method”, absolute spacifics a la Abdajev. I allready had been thinking for years before that this would be the best method for speed imprvement and here’s what happened. After just 3 weaks I equaled my pb’s from 5 years earlier in 60m sprint. (only this time on cold winter track, so maybe I’m actually at my highest capacity ever.) Unfortunately their was no improvement in the second month of this cycle. So whilst the spacifics are BY FAR the best way to reach PB standard, they also have a quick platua factor. In the second month of the cycle, I was no faster than during the first month.
However, there was a brief period 3 years ago where-by I posted times equal to my pb’s, on the testing day. Just from extreeme 1 rep strength work of very low & diminished volume. There was no track work in that 4 weak phase, only 1 rep weights and 5 reps for a few assistant exercises.
Given that I have allready tried plent of other method I am now wanting to try something new, to see if it will work. Ofcourse I am playing the stimulation versus anilliation game which is often a bit tricky when increasing the intensity, but I am prepared to balance it by compromising on all other areas of training. (for now.) I have allready seen the platue’s of when speed work on track takes priority as allready mentioned.
Here is what I am prepared to do;
10 day cycles;
DAY 1. MAX c.n.s stress, but LOW volume.
Just with a few exercises, no more than 2 sets in the main exercise. e.g 2 x 1 rep, maybe even above 100% of 1 rm for eccentric, or maybe 100% of 1 rm for slower concentric lift… Combined with maybe another exercse (drop jumps perhaps?), and lighter work for upperbody.
DAY 2. rest.
3. rest.
4. tempo
5. tempo.
6. sprints 95%. Light weights workout.
7. rest.
8. tempo
9. light weights or sprints @ 90-95%.
10. Rest.
Then repeat cycle.
This is for part of preperation phase only.
I do tend o think that the ability to contract the muscles really hard is the only type of weights work that can enhance sprint speed further. (I know I am in opposition to some others ideas.) Ofcourse, this absolute max intensity would not be done throughout the entire year. I’m trying to think of a way to reak the speed platua.
Start finding something that keeps you fast enough day in day out,and stick to it in the long run.Put some nerve in it over and over,or do not train at all…
But that would be one long platue no?
Put some nerve into it? You mean excitement / adrenalin ?
Define Plateau.
If you keep changing stimuli every time you seemingly hit a “plateau”,your body will end up being a confused one,scarcely proficient at a number of task,far from excellence in any.
My definition of plateau is when you stop progressing, and stay at the same leval for a long time. Stimulus would need to change slightly. As I mentioned in the c.n.s thread, I allready tried the spacifics route of just a few exercises (kenteris style) quickly equalled pb and stopped improving. Also last year I did the variation route.
It totally depends upon the level you stay at relative to your full (current) potential,and on the way you manage to stay there.
Reactively changing the set of stimuli anytime you -as from your definition- “stop progressing” is not going to bring much beyond your barriers.
But you are free experiment yourself,naturally.
You are clearly already confused,and willing to put more confusion in.
I am the same way. This type of stuff benefits me. Can work wonders for natural athletes.
I think we’re all confused. Unless of course we’re D.B.Hammer who only works with Olympic gold medalists in a secret German training facility.