thanks mark…exactly what i was looking for.
the performance block you referred to, is that just the 4 week block you described? also, i thought Prilipens chart was a reference for optimal power, not strength?
The reason we use Prilpens chart is for optimal reps at a given percentage. With high school athletes I want to make sure we perform as many perfect reps that we can.
This quote below is taken from Elite Fitness System and is a response from Coach X on a similar question sent to him last year. I hope this answers your question.
“Also these max effort exercises are based on percentages of your 1 rep max which enables me the coach to control and make sure each athlete is getting the right amount of work(see Jim Wendler’s article on Beginner Mistakes, part 1), smaller jumps=bigger gains, Increase strength, work capacity, total amount of weight lifted and increase volume without scarificing strength. It is non-linear thinking!”
Supervenom…Those are great points you made about the bands and it really does make sense but what if you have a sticking point where you initial push does not accelerate the barbell enough to make it through that sticking point, won’t it help to incorperate bands. I guess you could do isometrics at the point of weakness or board presses, or lockouts…ect, but for the sake of talking about bands, I thought that they were supposed to teach the muscles to push harder and longer for the whole peroid of the lift rather than depending on momentum to bring the bar past your sticking point? I remember reading in one of Louie’s articles that the bands make the entire concentric phase a starting point. I am not saying anything you said was wrong I am just aking for some feedback as to what those who use the bands say about why they use them. I use bands sometimes and I think I am getting stronger from their use, maybe it’s mental???
I use the hyper complex but it’s not mine. It came to me from Al Vermiel. Great Exercise!
Is this the one you show on GPP?
Yes it’s the same series on the box horse
http://www.worldtalkradio.com/archive.asp?aid=1959
I hope you guys listen to this when you have some time. A ton of good stuff on this webcast. He even gives a shout out to Big Ben.
Later!
thanks…
nycJay…great site I am gonna be busy listening to a lot of the interviews on there !!! Thanks
Does anyone run down hill like Al vermiel talks about in the interview??? Is this like Overspeed training???
asd123, ccardill, kruger.
Maybe you guys should reread my posts for why bands are not optimal if you use them for the entire lift! I do give examples of where bands might be helpful for athletes at all levels; however, you get a beginner that uses bands and I’ll take his twin and I guarnatee you that I will smoke you out of the water in 3 months! Smoke you out of water sounds like a paradox?
We are going around in circles. Please debate this issue after reading all of my posts on this thread! Also, I have stated this time and time again for sake that I am starting to puke when I say it, BANDS SHOULD NOT BE USED FOR THE ENTIRE LIFT AND ESPECIALLY THEY SHOULD NOT BE USED MOST OF THE YEAR FOR ANY ATHLETES. They change the firing patterns of your muscles, they… BLAH BLAH BLAH. Just read my other posts that state why! Also read David W’s while your at it!
I have trained and trained with 5 other guys that followed my methodology for lifting for beginners and it didn’t matter what age they were! They all roughly started at 135 or less and within 3 months they went up to 225 on their bench and within 6 months they went up to 245. All injury free. They did each exercise twice per week. They would do chest on Monday and then again on Thursday and then again on the following Monday. This gave each of us 3 days of rest between Monday and Thursday’s session and 4 days bewteen Thursday and Monday. They did one group of exercises (say upperbody) on day one, another on day two (say shoulders), and another on day 3 (say legs). It works great for beginners and they lift 6 days straight while taking Sundays off. It doesn’t take a genius to see why this program works! However, at the elite stage stagnation occurs which is why other stimulus must be used! I would gather that eccentric loading at this elite stage would work better than bands! And for the billionth time when you talk about WSBC please don’t infer that BANDS are the sole reason why these lifters are so great! Even in your guys posts you say they do board presses, dynamic exercise days, and etc. This wide array of stimuluses is why they keep getting better!
You mean statements like this
The pulling phase of the clean from the ground to the catch phase is purely reactive there is no preloading of the muscles there!
I used it a while back. I only felt fast right after the down hills (obviously). I cant say that I would swear by it but Al V. makes some good points and recomendations regarding down hill runs.
FYI he’s going to be speaking for perform better. I would go but I would hate to sit through and listen to some of the BS of of the other speakers… I swear if I hear another guru talking about core, rubber band or sports specific training Im gonna go APE SHIT and start throwing fecal matter :eek:
NYCJAY Wrote… “FYI he’s going to be speaking for perform better. I would go but I would hate to sit through and listen to some of the BS of of the other speakers… I swear if I hear another guru talking about core, rubber band or sports specific training Im gonna go APE SHIT and start throwing fecal matter”
NYC I would also worry about getting hit buy the bull-fecal matter a lot of these speakers are throwing at you! 
SuperVenom…
What are your feelings of chain useage…same as bands? Just curious 
Yeah mon…
Chains have somewhat a different philosphy bc the wt decreases towards the bottom of the lift and then increases towards the top of the lift. I have no problem with the wt becoming lower on the eccentric phase has this will lead to more Force (F=Ma); however, the rebound velocity will be the same because the acceleration is the same of all weighted objects, 9.81m/s! So other than the chains providing some eccentric loading there is really no reason to use them bc the eccentric loading gets less and less as you get to the bottom on bench press for example! Now as for the chains increasing in wt on the concentric phase is very similar to the band analogy; therefore, why would you want to increase tension on the concentric contraction? This changes the Neuromuscular coordination of the exercise and therefore it will harm athletes, not to mention the RFD in a different way. Eccentric loading itself without chains would be a better idea, and eccentric loading with wt. releasers would be an even better idea!
Now that I think about it chains and bands may benefit powerlifters bc of the TUT; however, I believe other protocols such as eccentric loading and wt. releasers work better for athletes, hands down! As for powerlifters TUT can be achieved other ways as well and I don’t see the benefit of TUT in the concentric portion of the lift bc you are always stronger eccentrically than you are concentrically and since F=Ma and every reaction as an opposite and equal reaction, then it makes no sense to have that opposite reaction hindered by bands!
If I was designing a strength training tool I would be at Nasa where I could create a hypergravity vest or shoes where the acceleration downwards would exceed 9.81m/s say 12m/s and as soon as you hit the ground the vest goes 0 for resistance. You might wonder why not just leave the vest on for the duration of the vertical jump or bench press? Answer, bc when you lift a wt in a bench press you overcome gravity or the 9.81m/s on the concentric contraction. If the vest or alternatively bar (for the bench press) was kept at 12m/s then you would have to overcome this new gravity in order to finish the lift! But since the eccentric contraction is bigger one than the concentric contraction it would not make sense to utilize the 12m/s on the concentric portion of the lift. Although when I think about it this way I also realize that any kind of general strength increase in an organism will shift the majority of the force velocity curve upwards (except at the velocity end where there will be minimal increase if noticible at all) and this would benefit an athlete as well albeit not as much as the protocols I mentioned! The reason for my protocol is because and an acceleration of either wts or your own bodyweight will shift the entire force-velocity curve upwards and especially at the velocity end. I can see this with sprinters who will do plyo’s with the hypergravity vest!
The Mad Scientist is Loose!
Evil Laugh: WHUMHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
What your describing seems to be like the AMT jumps we were discussing on the other thread… Faster downward acceleration, release band tension at the bottom for the jump… What are the evil scientist’s thoughts on this? Seems to line up with your NASA hypergravity situation.
http://www.charliefrancis.com/community/showthread.php?t=453
Read the my posts not only on that thread but also the last 3 pages on this thread and you will see where I stand!
Supervenom…I agree with you total, I think 
…I think I see what you are talking about on the concentic phase and bands/chains with athletes!!! If I understand your though processes correctly, adaptation to the use of bands and chains would actually make athletes slower in their explosion (concentric actions?), stronger but slower, it this correct? As for your scientific inventions wouldn’t what you are describing be like Amt drops/altitude drops/drop benches ect…if you have someone drops a 45lb bar on you from 8 feet high your eccentric phase would be the 45lbs plus (9.81) or gravity…then the concentic phase would be the 45lbs so you would be stressing the eccentric phase (Working it more near it’s max cause you can lift more in the eccentric phase) and then working the concentric phase at a lower weight than the eccentric phase, is this correct?Sorry for being such a dumbass but I am just now getting into my courses like anatomy/phys, and biomechanics…this site is awsome cause I can get info from really educated people! Thanks