Flying runs would imply the fastest runs in any program requiring the most mobility, meaning that the steepness of the loading curve from the weights should be less than is likely to be found in the off season weight program for a linebacker or larger back and the speed requirement is likely to remain below that reached by 40m.
If you are a sprinter then the opposite case applies. In other words you can moderate the weight program around the need for the mobility required for the development of maximum speed.
The sprinter has more high intensity training elements (extending into speed, speed endurance, and special endurance) and therefore more time is spent in each training cycle before the law of diminishing returns forces you to recover and restart the training cycle. As weights are the fastest element to plateau on, a more moderate weight progression is possible for the sprinter. This will be much clearer when the new E-material is released.
I have no problem with plyos (which I classify as high intensity) as long as they are in the program to a degree throughout the program, the numbers are low, and the volume is raised and lowered as required with great care.
I would NEVER do depth jumps or altitude landings with anyone. There is a litany of horror stories on the subject of depth jumps following weights - by big men especially.
Thanks Charlie. By the way, stop talking about the new e-book or release it soon! 
I’m sure I’m not the only one going crazy with anticipation! Good marketing I guess.
Interesting, as many professionals have attested to the efficacy of depth jumps and altitude landings, with ‘lighter’ trainees, especially with respect to enhancing VJ performance.
Charlie, do you have any exceptions to your rule, or does no mean no.
I’m confused. Are you saying just after weights or you would never use them in general?
I am as well, as I had planned on using low box depth jumps on the plyo only day. But in the case of no depth jumps, would this be an acceptable pool: Hip explosions, box jumps, vertical jumps, long jumps, box jumps for distances, bounds, skips, and standing triple jump? The list of exercises rthat would be used on sprint days would be different. As well there is no heavy lifting on the plyo only day, well really no lifting at all.
I prob could get it done soner if I wasn’t spending time talking to you! (Just kidding)
No means no. Of course, you can get fast results in the short term with a dramatic intensification- until your luck runs out- as it surely will.
I don’t use depth jumps at all but they are ofthen used by others after weights. the story I remember was of the number one shot putter in the world doing depth jumps off a six foot box after squatting 900 lbs- and rupturing his quad and ending his career.
Point taken.
Charlie, by your definition what are the variations of ‘high intensity’ plyos which you WILL utilize.
6 foot box doesn’t exactly sound smart…
I will publish a graphic with examples of type and timing in the E-material, but for now I would offer an upper limit. For down jumps (such as down off a box and over 1 to 3 hurdles) I’d limit the height to 30 inches- less if the individual is not reactive.
OK, we are on the same page now. When I referenced depth jumps I was refering to reactives off of surfaces no more than .7m in height. The altitude landings, I’ve utilized, do exceed that height so long as the athlete is able to perform a ‘soft’ landing, however, I have not used surfaces which exceed 44inches and those were with athletes who weighed less than 200lbs.
The example you sighted, stepping off of a six foot platform, sounds completely insane to me. Primarily because this was a shot putter who most likely weighed upwards of 260lbs.
James,
Instead of waving motor qualities, could you keep the emphasis equal, but wave the upper body and lower body emphasis (assuming you use a upper/lower split)? I’m currently doing this for the first time, so gains illicted from this are immature to express it’s effectiveness. Curious if you have tried this with your athletes or yourself.
Simplistic Example:
Weeks 1-3:
Upper emphasis (volume waved to match stress level)
Lower (volume kept the same through the 3 weeks)
Week 1: Low Stress (high intensity, low volume)
Week 2: Mod Stress (high intensity, mod volume)
Week 3: High stress (high intensity, high volume)
Week 4: Low Stress (high intensity, lowest volume, decrease frequency)
Motor qualities are trained both with emphasis, but supplemental work is the variable being manipulated in the upper body, and lower body supplemental work will not change in weeks 1-3.
Landon, I have employed a similar program, but not by my choice. I had a couple of JC football players come to me for combine preparation, and they could only work with me twice per week. Accordingly I chose to supervise/construct their lower body/posterior chain/plyo workouts and leave the upper work for them on their own time.
So, in a sense, the emphasis during our time together, which was just short of 8 weeks, was on the development of the abilities which I worked on with them.
As you probably know, this type of split yields uneven development, with respect to the time in which the trained/emphasized abilities may optimally be expressed to their maximum.
Your results will speak for themselves.
If I understand your verbage/intentions correctly then note the following:
Just remember, that by waving intensity and volume, via emphasis, your ARE infact waving motor qualites. As any variation in training intensity (eg load) will develop different strengths along the curve, thereby, developing different motor qualities.
Out of curiosity, why have you elected to perform this particular program?
James,
Essentially, I’m emphasizing upper body maximal strength development while maintaining lower body strength. For the longest time, I would simply train both maximally concurrently, and I went no where or gained slowly. When I put more emphasis on my lower body, and decreased emphasis on my upper, lower body strength shot up. That was simply a volume issue more than anything. I want to make sure I have adaquate volume for my upper body right now to progress like I did before when I did the same for my lower body. I should of said I am doing this for the first time with my upper body as well. I’ve always had a sluggish upper body, thus emphasising it right now should help.
I’m still training speed-strength (speed-power), and limit strength w/ the same protocol, but I’m simply emphasizing my “general strength” more with my upper body. Thats what I was meaning in terms of not waving my speed-strength, and limit strength qualities, but simply waving my general strength emphasis. Hope that makes sense.
Also, when preforming the maximal effot method, Zatiorsky states you need ~ 72 hours until the next workout, yet the westside template does ME on Monday, then ME on Wednesday. Since fatigue isn’t local, shouldn’t that Wednesday session be held off until Thursday? Thats why I orginally considered doing a 3 day / week program instead of the 4, but my training partners begged me for a 4 Let me know if this has been covered before. I’m too lazy to re-read this gargantuan thread.
What a terribly unorganized reply. Sorry
I am against the WSBC idea of box squatting and here’s why,
Zatsiorsky in his book “The Science And Practice Of Strength Training” on page 27 states, "To judge the role of external resistance, imagine an athlete who exerts maximal force (Fm) in a leg extension such as squatting. Two experimental paradigms are employed to measure the external resistance. In the first case, the maximal isometric force (Fm) corresponding to different degrees of leg extension is measured. Many researchers have found that the correlation between the force Fm and leg length (i.e., the distance from the pelvis to the foot is positive: If the leg extends, the force increases (Figure 2.3, curve A; see also Figure 1.3). Maximum maximorum force (Fmm) is achieved when the position of the leg is close to full extenstion. This is in agreement with everyday observations–the weight can be lifted in semisquatting, not deep squatting, movements.
However, if the leg extenstion force is registered in a dynamic movement such as a takeoff in jumping, the dependence is exactly the opposite (Figure 2.3, curve B). In this case, maximal force is generated in the deepest squatting position. The correlation of Fm to leg length, then, is negative. Here the mechanical behaviour of a support leg resembles the behaviour of a spring; the greater the deformation (i.e., knee bending), the greater the force. Remember that in both experimental conditions (iso-metric and jumping takeoff), the athlete is making maximal effort. Thus, both the magnitude of Fm and the correlation of Fm to leg length (positive or negative) are changed because the type of resistance changes. In the first case the resistance is the immovable obstacle and in the second it is the weight and inertia of the athlete’s body.
Supervenomsuperman states,
So there you have it folks. For athletes in general and especially sprinters full squats generate more force than half or anyother angled squat in terms of dynamic movements; therefore, full squats should be done most of the time throughout the year b/c athletes need to produce more force at the bottom (full squat position) to generate more reactive force to propell themselves faster/higher/farther. For sprinters this would come into play for the first 10 metres, for football offensive/defensive lineman full squats should be done all the time. At certain stages a sprinter should also do half/parrallel/quarter squats for the 10-100m segment of the race; furthermore, the selection of what angle the squat should be must be decided at whatever angle the sprinter’s knees/hips are. Quarter squats for when the athlete is almost completely upright. This makes sense b/c like I always tell people that if you work in a bigger ROM then you will produce more force/strength. This is another reason why I recommend Lat Pullups as the number one exercise for the lats.
Also if you look at figure 1.3 on page 9 Zatsiorsky will explain to you why working at a higher angle on a joint will not produce a significant change in strength/force at a lower angle (i.e., less exposion of the line for football lineman); however, if an athlete does squats a lower angle then he will significantly improve strength at all other angles. Yes I know on the graph he mentions isometric testing but nonetheless this applies to all exercise across the board.
You can change the system to suit your needs. Box squatting to parallel is done because it is the sport-specific movement for powerlifting. On max effort day they use a close stance and generally go well below parallel. Angelo Berardinelli supposedly box squats on a six inch box on ME day. Besides, a truly parallel box is not much higher than the lowest you can go in the squat without losing your arch.
:rolleyes:
FLEXIBILITY of the knees hips and ankle joints.
Landon, thanks for the explanation. I am now able to understand more clearly what it is that you are doing. It is great that you have/are discovering how your body responds to various loading and training protocols. This is key.
As you stated, the ultimate is to configure the training in such a way that you are able to yield a more balanced development of strengths, although this would be more relevant to peaking for a competition.
As far as the 72hr separation of intense workouts goes; Westsides foundations are built upon the premise that 72hrs must pass between intense workouts of like muscle groups. Whereas, you have pointed out that the ME work takes it’s toll on the CNS regardless if it comes from squatting, benching, deadlifting, etc.
Interestingly enough, I think that you will see that the Westside template, at leas for advanced trainees, may begin to accomodate this effect.
I spoke with Jim Wendler last week and he informed me that some of the lifters are no longer performing a ME day for squat/dl. Instead, they will normally squat or dl heavy after their speed sets on DE day and leave ME day for assistance lifts.
I have personally found that I must employ deload weeks about every 5th and 6th week, otherwise my CNS becomes fried. As you can probably guess, I have found that I am able to go much longer without a deload in my bench training than I am my squat/dl training. Accordingly, this is consistent with the fatigue yielded by the CNS when benching as compared to squatting or deadlifting.
I have tried a few different variations of the WSB split (eg 7day week, 10day week, 1 on 1 off, 1on 1extra 1off, etc) and I have found that I respond most optimally to the 7day week as long as I deload at the right time. I am also drug free if you feel that this makes a difference, as I do.