Weights following speed work

[lr1400]

@hemann

but how strong is jon baldwin? how strong was ben johnson? Sure no athlete who is naturally freakishly strong should focus on strength. But what about the athletes who are weak? I think you’re leaving those athletes out of the equation! I’d bet anything that jon baldwin can squat 2x his bodyweight-- even without squatting.

But i do like- whoever said- that strength and speed need to be developed at the same time. As in: strength won’t translate??

Most coaches say strength and speed need to be developed at the same time for most people.

BJ is an anomaly. Most sprinters are pretty strong but not anything like BJ.

[lr1400]

@James_Smith

A note in reference to the debate as to whether one may benefit from a weights dominant vs. sprint dominant vs. balanced approach:

Keeping in mind that speed is the ultimate goal the solution must obviously not lose site of this fact.

As it stands, particularly regarding speed as it exists in the zone that precedes maximum velocity (ergo starts and acceleration) there are those whose speed is more rooted in higher force/lower velocity training (ergo higher intensity strength training) those whose speed is more rooted in speed-power work itself and others whose speed is rooted in a balance of the two.

So as others here have eluded to, it is only logical that each individual find, through trial and error, what is optimal for them.

As I discuss in my most recent lecture DVD, one of my fastest and most powerful players (Jonathon Baldwin) does virtually zero strength training for his legs short of a version of pilates with the cables on a shuttle device. His output potential is so high that the stimulus from the speed-power work, and practice of sport itself, is enough for him to further increase his speed-power.

Thus, I only have him strength train his upper body and he continues to sprint faster, jump higher/farther, and throw med balls farther.

Another one of my fastest and most explosive players (Buddy Jackson) performs leg press with moderate loads, never very heavy, along with the speed-power work and he has continued to develop.

Lastly, another one of my most explosive players (Dion Lewis) derives his speed very much from his strength as he very routinely squatted 530 on a safety squat bar this summer at a bodyweight of 188 or so.

So here’s three examples of players who all perform speed-power work who are all comparable in their speed in the range of <30-40yds yet one does no weight training for his legs, another performs moderate weight training, and the other squats the house.

It’s not what many like to hear; however, in order to maximize an athlete’s potential the training must be individualized to that athlete.

I don’t recall you mentioning what the criteria for deciding who needs to lift or not lift or who needs to lift heavy. I think I remember you saying you did allow the athletes to decide to some degree. Are you using specific methodology to decide or just trial and error?

[James_Smith]

@hemann

but how strong is jon baldwin? how strong was ben johnson? Sure no athlete who is naturally freakishly strong should focus on strength. But what about the athletes who are weak? I think you’re leaving those athletes out of the equation! I’d bet anything that jon baldwin can squat 2x his bodyweight-- even without squatting.

But i do like- whoever said- that strength and speed need to be developed at the same time. As in: strength won’t translate??

Baldwin is very strong in many different ways. He had never squatted prior to coming to PITT yet had freakishly muscled thighs solely due to track, basketball, and football practice.

Within a couple workouts with me he was squatting 315 for easy reps then we decided to scrap the squat because he didn’t like the way his legs/knees felt.

He benched 315x1 during initial testing and this past summer he made 395. His vertical jump is +40in and his standing broad jump is +11ft and he throws a 10lb ball backward overhead for 25yds.

After scrapping squats I had him perform split squats with dumbbells and starting this season we decided to scrap all weight training for his legs entirely. He’s never felt better.

So again, this is what is optimal for him. Each athlete/coach must go through this process together in order to find unique solutions to individual training problems.

[lr1400]

@James_Smith

Baldwin is very strong in many different ways. He had never squatted prior to coming to PITT yet had freakishly muscled thighs solely due to track, basketball, and football practice.

Within a couple workouts with me he was squatting 315 for easy reps then we decided to scrap the squat because he didn’t like the way his legs/knees felt.

He benched 315x1 during initial testing and this past summer he made 395. His vertical jump is +40in and his standing broad jump is +11ft and he throws a 10lb ball backward overhead for 25yds.

After scrapping squats I had him perform split squats with dumbbells and starting this season we decided to scrap all weight training for his legs entirely. He’s never felt better.

So again, this is what is optimal for him. Each athlete/coach must go through this process together in order to find unique solutions to individual training problems.

Do you think the more freakish guys can get away with less weight training and that the less gifted need to focus more on weights and strength in general?

[James_Smith]

@lr1400

I don’t recall you mentioning what the criteria for deciding who needs to lift or not lift or who needs to lift heavy. I think I remember you saying you did allow the athletes to decide to some degree. Are you using specific methodology to decide or just trial and error?

No specific methodology per se. I’ve relied upon close monitoring of training effects and athlete feedback; however, I’m confident that morpho-biomechanical data may effectively be used to formulate specific methodology in this regard.

[James_Smith]

@lr1400

Do you think the more freakish guys can get away with less weight training and that the less gifted need to focus more on weights and strength in general?

It all depends; however those with fantastic outputs certainly derive much more powerful training effects from CNS intensive activities.

For those of you interested in this particular topic, I expound upon this in greater detail in a lecture dvd I just released a couple days ago.

[speedcoach]

I couldn’t agree more James. I have some kids who hate how their legs and knees feel after squatting. At the level your guys are at, most of them have a high degree of power in place. It’s obviously not lacking when you consider the med bal broad jump and vert numbers. I have a kid who is a freak. He walks in the gym one day when a bunch of my college guys were testing their verts on vertec. He comes in cold off the street and hits 41" Everyones jaw hit the floor. He trains inconsistently, but can bury 455lb squat for 3 after months off. He runs hand 4.2’s. He is a kid who it seems the more we do, the worse it affects him. So I just stopped pushing him because he performs better just running speed work. Been talking to Vikes and Rams. Amazing athlete, lacks brains. Has had to serious off field incidents. Was a D2 preseason all american at GVSU going into junior year. Without a doubt, would be the best back at U of M this year. Instead playing NAIA due to NCAA suspension. Just can’t teach some kids to get out of their own way.

[pavel]

One friend of mine ran 50.02 over 400m when he was 17. He did not run too much. However, he worked a lot on the strength. He was pretty stong for his age. After that a lot of people told he to run more and quit the gym. He did it and started running more, like a typical 400mrunner. I think too much. He is 22 this year. He doesn’t lift impresive numbers like used to and his best one lap remain same. This year ran 50.89.