I’m a part time athlete, so I realize I don’t have the time and energy reserves of a full time athlete, but I really can’t focus on more than 2 or 3 things in a given workout.
Kyle,
You are a wise young man. You will make a great coach. You would not believe what I here and see on this subject on a daily basis. (concerning high quantities of lifting).
Originally posted by Flash
This thread raises an important point that needs to be addressed. Should the goal in training be to perform as much work as possible or perform the least amount necessary to get an improvement? Which approach do you think produces the best performances over the long run?
Well which is it. Long term gain or short term phrase. From what I’ve seen it takes a very astute athlete at a young age to be willing to lose ground to contemporaries realising that the work they are doing will blow them away later.
Isn’t the aim of training ‘to walk the tight rope of optimal training’ to get the best performance out of training for minimal pain.
Kyle
I agree.
Talking to some other coaches - they say there athetes are going to get injuried so they find ways of working around the injuries. They expect injuries to happen and don’t try and work out why it happened. To me that is wrong - period.
Yes injuries do occur - but finding out why and what to do is more important than expecting it.
Sorry phrase was meant to be praise. I need my dictionary.
Kyle - your comments are well thought out. Your 16?
Kyle, yet another good insight. I dont see the point of pushing the envelope on an athlete with a young training age, when they have many years to progress. It is our job as coaches to make the best training enviroment to promote gains without sacrificing their health. We must look at the long-term plan. I see a growing number of coaches only look at the athletes career (especially in college) for four years, and nothing after. It is a disservice to all involved to be short-sighted.
Well which is it. Long term gain or short term phrase. From what I’ve seen it takes a very astute athlete at a young age to be willing to lose ground to contemporaries realising that the work they are doing will blow them away later.
Why would the athlete necessarily lose ground? I suggested doing the minimum needed to facilitate improved performance. If performance is improving, why do more? To improve even faster? That’s a dangerous game. I wouldn’t press my luck. If a little is good, more is not necessarily better.
As far as patience on a young athlete’s part, that’s the coach’s job. Charlie has stated, quite rightly in my opinion, that the coach’s job 90% of the time is holding the athlete back from doing too much work. The coach is there to provide the objective perspective and maturity that a younger insecure athlete lacks.
Jackasses - Good call 
Your edited post probably illustrates the answers better.
Why do more work when it isn’t needed.
I made a note in my training diary in bold, it said.
RECOVERY IS THE KEY.
It holds true.
I hope you had a good birthday
Flash! Very good point.
When dealing with young athletes, they do not know their body good enough (except Kyle) so therefore, they want to GO-GO-GO! Hormones. I miss youth 
LOL
To Flash and everyone else,
What do you think about concentrated loading? It seems to show the benefits months ‘down the road’.
What do you think about Kenderis (200m man from Greece)? His training seems to coincide with the weightlifting programs of Bulgaria and Greece. No one can argue with his results.
Flash, high intensity for their programs is 95th percentile or greater.
Personally, I couldn’t imagine maxing out (Training 1RM for the day) each day with the same excercises. So, I’m doomed even if I were to try this type of program. I think the term ‘faith’ might actually apply!
:o
:o [/quote]
Training like this takes years to build up to. Its not just a “program” you go and do. It also require a huge amount of effort aimed at recovery/regeneration that only a full time athlete has time/resources for. [/quote]
I understand that you do not just go and do that. Like anything, it takes time for training accumulation and adaptation to occur. I will say this though, I’ve adpoted just thier warm-up and my performance in the weight room has increased considerably. Now only if I started training at age 10. :sing::sing::sing:
RE: Concentrated loading
This gets into some of the ideas in Supertraining about the longer term lag effects of concentrated strength blocks. If you’re familiar with Charlie’s short to long periodization scheme, much of the weighlifting volume occurs primarily in the fall and winter coinciding with the short acceleration work but continues to have positive effects over the rest of the year.
As far as the Greek training system is concerned, there was a lot of talk about it in older threads. A little knowledge can be dangerous. Considering the secrecy surrounding Kenderis’ training, I wouldn’t attempt to implement such an approach unless I was familiar with the entire system and understood its dynamics. Even if I did, I’m not sure I would use it. There are many paths to the mountain top. It’s not just a question of which training system is the “best” per se, but also which training system you know how to implement and handle effectively.
I am quite familiar with Charlie’s periodization methods as what he says makes a lot of sense to me. However, he does not leave anything out ever. Just altering the volumes of the work. Once you have attained a level for 30m or 50m in the indoor season it is a lot easier to maintain that level of performance so most of the work for the outdoor season can be geared towards max velocity and spd endurance. Nothing new.
As far as the Greek training system is concerned, there was a lot of talk about it in older threads. A little knowledge can be dangerous. Considering the secrecy surrounding Kenderis’ training, I wouldn’t attempt to implement such an approach unless I was familiar with the entire system and understood its dynamics. Even if I did, I’m not sure I would use it. There are many paths to the mountain top. It’s not just a question of which training system is the “best” per se, but also which training system you know how to implement and handle effectively. [/quote]
I actually find this interesting that with all the ‘advances’ sport science has made that we haven’t really progressed all that much in terms of knowing what is a better way to approach training. I’m still surprised that considering it’s been 15 years since Ben’s and Flo’s races in Seoul there hasn’t been any increase in those performances. Tim’s 9.78 I still don’t think it rivals Ben’s 9.79! I truely think it’s so disappointing that Ben did not get a chance to continue his carreer from 1988. The reason is because we COULD have found out what the human body was capable of. Not saying that we still won’t but… 9.6? or better???
In Asheville Charlie pointed out that Tim’s 9.78 was run on a fairly “average” track. So I don’t think Tim had the advantages of a non-regulation harder track like Carl and Donovan had. In fact, Charlie dismissed objections to Tim’s performance on these grounds.
As far as “advances” in sport science over the past 15 years. I really don’t think there have been any. If anything, I think the state of the art in sports training has regressed considerably. Never before has serious sports training been more subject to fads. I think as fitness and exercise has increased among the general population a lot of the marketing and gimmicks directed toward the general population have spilled over into sports training. I think Charlie is right (surprise) when he says that you’ll get better results using the methods Gerard Mach used 40 years ago than from following most of the recent training methods of the past 15 years. I have a copy of Gerard’s little pamphlet on sprinting and hurdling, and in only 50 pages Gerard provides better training advice that any of the Guru’s running around today.
The reason I’m so critical of all the training fads over the last 15 years is because I stupidly fell for a lot of them.
Kyle, how much volume are you using during your speed days?
“The reason I’m so critical of all the training fads over the last 15 years is because I stupidly fell for a lot of them.”
flash what were some of these fads?
Parachutes, overspeed, acceleration ladder, swiss ball (although it’s not entirely useless). In the early days I was suckered in by bodybuilding magazines and God only knows how many worthless supplements.
Where can I get a copy of this pamphlet?
thanks
AT THE MOMENT I TRAIN TWICE AWEEK
i beleave that every athlete should have the mentallity, that they have no limit.
Pain is the Game.
i think what is being argued is semantics. overtraining is bad. Overreaching can be good if used properly
Overtrianing=unplanned, long term detriment
Overreaching=planned, short term decrement, eventual increase in fitness