Back to one of my previous questions on this thread. We know that if you stay at a low intensity and high volume, then you will see hypertrophy. Is this not what we stay away from in elite sprinting? Why not periodize to keep the nervous system fresh instead of purposefully going stale??
DCW23:It all comes down to recovery and timing elements. Simple and to the point.
The question I would ask is how much volume is enough to attain the best return? Of course, it’s all going to be individual. As I have pointed out on the old forum, my volume is dictated by my ability to maintain the desired intensity level. When that level can’t be maintained, why continue?
A distinction must be made between ‘overreaching’ which is short term and followed by supercompensation and ‘overtraining’ which is a chronic situation.
In response:
Tim Lane
“The only way not to overtrain is to perform some type of recovery everyday”
You have a point, but I don’t think this is the ONLY way not to overtrain. The only way to prevent overtraining IMO, is to properly manage the volume, intensity, AND recovery. I would think that volume is the most crucial element in managing training stress.
dlive11
“Back to one of my previous questions on this thread. We know that if you stay at a low intensity and high volume, then you will see hypertrophy. Is this not what we stay away from in elite sprinting? Why not periodize to keep the nervous system fresh instead of purposefully going stale??”
Periodize what part of it though? 
I think why not just stay away from the high volume/low intensity work? Other than where needed of course. (GPP, hypertrophy phases, etc.) On this I think we agree?
I wasn’t at the NC seminar, but I do remember Charlie saying in the Van seminar that adjusting the volume is a key point in his vertical integration model. All elements are present, at relatively high intensities (where applicable) all year round; it’s primarily the volume that fluctuates.
I know theres a bunch of ex-seminar people on here, anyone want to chip in on my rant?
The vertical integration model is one of the most fascinating and ingenious forms of periodization I’ve ever seen
D.
Ok sp if we’re saying ‘overreaching’ it was always my aim never to go beyond my limit and always advocated undertraining vs overreaching. A few times last season I did find though that when I had overcooked it by doing sprints and weights all week on alternative days and was extremely fatigued. I had two days off and bang I exploded with a PR when I thought I’d be lucky to get out of the blocks. I guess it’s major supercompensation. I wonder to what extent this is a personal thing?!
Druze
I believe we are in 100% agreement on this subject, just saying things differently. I am not suggesting to periodize this type of workout into a program, I am just questioning why someone would take out CNS work and just focus on high volume lifting. This is more for body-building than for sprinting. I am in total agreement about using the vertical intergration system.
i agree with the term overeaching (good point NEO) rather than over training.
ive also set new PRs recently on days when i didnt expect to have anything special in the tank (UTH) ie begining of a recovery, no powerdrive no lucky socks etc…
dlive11
Yah I figured we were
I was just kind of supporting your side of the argument in my own long winded way
D.
Thanks Druze!
I gotcha.
The thing is - you can deliberately induce incomplete recovery for a period of time, and then backoff for a period of greater gains. That is the basics of it anyway
Col, this will work for weightlifters like yourself, but its not a great idea for sprinters since they need to sprint and when you are overtrained, you can’t sprint very well at all and you also risk injury.
I remember reading an abstract which chronicled an annual congress of sports medicine doctors and scientists examining the effects of overtraining. The only thing to come out of this week long meeting was that they aggreed to rename the phenomenon: Under Recovery Syndrome. lol
dcw23.
I like that point. I can relate it to distance running (for those that care). If you are slogging 80-100 miles a week, how much do you have in the tank to do speed work? Not much. That is the problem with their 12 week volume loading protocol. This relates the same to sprinters. We always need to be near our event and spending high amounts of time in low-intensity volume work will lower our quality of speed work.
I can relate it to distance running (for those that care).
i can relate and do care as in my previous life (less than 1 year ago) was logging 20+ hrs per week of endurance training preparing for ironman canada. i guess thats where my first experience with periodiaztion (rob sleamaker’s book was great for endurance athletes) and the basic ideas i learned transfer to my new life as a “speed” based athlete.
To the Forum,
I think that high intensity training is very complicated. I like the idea of 3 speed sessions per week with recovery sessions inbetween. However, I then look at weightlifting programs of Bulgarians and the Greeks. High intensity sessions 2/day and 6 days a week. Hard on the CNS it seems to me but no one can argue the results of such programs. It’s producing the elite weightlifters of the world.
They have recovery weeks with the 95th percentile being adheared and the volume is droped and that’s all it seems to take to recover and start at a higher level the following cycle. Undertraining or Overytraining? Regardless, they get the kind of results we would all want. Any comments?:sing:
nightmare4d, Cool to hear that you have been on both sides of the spectrum. I have been there as well and that is why I like to know training principles of both. Even though we place them worlds apart, they are nearing each other day by day.
Principles,
I feel there may be a variety of reasons for their success on this type of program. For one, training age comes into play. In the Western hemisphere, our adolescents are playing on the computer or X-box, while their kids are starting training. I think the longer you are exposed to this, the better suited you are for advanced work.
But, you do bring up a valid and intruiging question.
RE: weightlifters
You have to be careful when translating training methods from one sport to another. Not all world class weightlifters train like that, and even those that do, do not necessarily train like that all the time. In addition, what constitutes high intensity for weight training covers a much greater intensity range than in sprinting.
This thread raises an important point that needs to be addressed. Should the goal in training be to perform as much work as possible or perform the least amount necessary to get an improvement? Which approach do you think produces the best performances over the long run?
Good point Flash.
Quality Versus Quantity.
I know coaches that originally write up great programs, then freak out when they see how little is on the sheet. I think it is the old way of thinking that one must slog through 8-10 exercises before getting results. We on this forum know that in our sport it is about efficiency. On the track and in the weight room.