Like you said earlier, my knowledge of training sucks so I’m going to get some online training. I just want to get better performance numbers while keeping my lower back healthy. I know it’s not going to be easy and it will require a lot of patience.
Just an aside and a much more minor issue, I wouldn’t do myofascial release via foam rolling as part of a warm-up before a high intensity workout. Spells all kinds of bad.
BTW your numbers really aren’t that bad. I don’t know how you’re timing the 40yd, most likely a HT, but it isn’t that bad depending on how accurate it is. You went <2 seconds for 20yd-40yd, which is on pace to be pretty good. To give you an idea, most guys running 10.7-10.9 in the 100m are going to have a 20m-30m split in the 1.04-1.08 range or so during a race. Given your FAT bests and the injury, it isn’t that bad. I don’t know the weight you used for the OHB test, but 18 yards is pretty legit. Overall, the numbers really aren’t that bad if you’re measuring the things correctly.
RB is right about seeing someone else though to get a second opinion, if possible.
The OHB was 8lbs, how would you rank that? It still isn’t within my best though. And the sprints were hand timed.
I was told that foam rolling was necessary for the warmup by a sports chiro who was highly recommended by Pfaff. Mainly just because I’m so tight all the time. I literally have to use a baseball just to get loose. The tennis ball is useless because it doesn’t get deep enough.
Very easy foam rolling is ok before a race or speed session but nothing deep nor long.
Ah… 8lb is a lot lighter than I was thinking. Most numbers are based on a 12lb or 16lb shot.
He told you to do that before a HIGH INTENSITY workout? With sprints, plyos, weights? I ask for the clarification because Pfaff specifically speaks against this kind of work in numerous materials. High intensity therapy right before doing stuff like this is at best asking for lower performance levels, possibly injury. There is a ton of research on this in different neurology literature involving the activation of nocioceptors immediately before activity.
There is footage of Trey Hardee using this kind of work but it was very low intensity, probably akin to using “The Stick”. Definitely wasn’t looking to release anything or get deep.
Kyle, what have you been using for lower body strength workouts?
The 40 isn’t bad, all things considered. You aren’t that far off your all time best, right? The broad jump and the OHB are the ones that raise a red flag for me, is it possible that you are still guarding yourself when maximally extending the hip?
Yeah, the stick is great and I use it a lot, but it is just a lot different than myofascial release via foam rolling, let alone a baseball or bat or whatever else like that! Way way excessive. The stick, when used properly, is akin to a shake out or flushing massage in some ways, while foam rolling is more akin to Rolfing or something of that nature. Definitely wouldn’t be doing that before a workout.
I’m also not convinced I’d test someone in the OHB so recently coming back from a back injury. Most people have so much excessive lumbar extension in the OHB it is asking for injury in healthy people, let alone someone with an injury history. TWhite is probably right on with his assessment of the guarding.
Agreed, I would stay away from most jumps and OHB if you are still having an issue with the spine. OHB for height should be OK as long as you aren’t cueing excessive lumbar extension as fogelson said. I would do a ton of pelvic stabilization work and save the soft tissue methods for after the session along with some stretching if you are excessively tight.
I’m surprised that you are still having issues with the back, have any of your previous symptoms returned?
Fogelson, the reason why he prescribed using the deep massage stuff preworkout is because I get extremely tight. Particulary in the glutes and erector spinae, it is a big issue for me. I’m thinking it is neural tension and a sign that my spine is telling me to stop doing whatever I’m doing.
Thomas, my all time best 40 was 4.52 so I’m still off by a lot. Lately I’ve been doing heavy Bulgarians, Barbell Glute Bridges, and some general pchain work.
As far as guarding myself when maximally extending my hip, I would say a little bit not much.
My previous symptoms haven’t returned but I can feel that if I keep doing HI stuff like jumping, then they are going to return. Look what happened to me the day before my tryout.
I’d say about twice per day I spend a good amount of time using the baseball for massage and static stretch the hamstings, hip flexors, and erector spinae. My biggest problem is staying loose, period! I’d say that my workouts during the summer were worthless because I was very tight during most of the workouts.
I wouldn’t go crazy with the hip thrusts right now, too much of a chance to ingrain an improper movement pattern. You don’t want your erector spinae or hamstrings to be all that active during that exercise.
Out of curiosity, are your erectors much bigger than your glutes comparatively?
I stopped doing the hip thrusts for that reason. What’s even worse is that when I do just normal glute activation in my warmup, I feel it mostly in my hamstrings and erector spinae. This just started happening as well, it wasn’t like this when I was training last week.
I wonder if that could be the cause of this whole issue. I’d say I have good sized erectors, but I’d also say my glutes are good size. I do remember spending a lot of time working my erectors during PT after surgery if that means anything.
Okay, I understand that you’re tight. Trust me that I understand what you are saying when you say that you are very tight. What I am telling you is that it will likely do nearly nothing to solve the problem and likely cause much bigger problems. If you are so tight that you need extremely deep work before you train, you shouldn’t be training. It is as simple as that. If you cannot get adequately ready to train via increasing warmth and light stretching movements (whatever method you want, AIS/dynamic/light static), you really have no place to be lifting heavy, sprinting fast, or doing throws/jumps. Very deep work immediately before a workout (via myofascial release nonetheless!!!) is going to cause significant, non-debatable problems with coordination and various other motor issues. Even something like ART should be used very carefully, let alone what you’re doing. Keep it for after training or don’t train at all if it is that bad.
Understood.
Would loaded single leg exercises like bulgarians cause tightness in my erector spinae?
It’s quite possible. I bet it is more likely QL tightness though that you are thinking is tightness in the erectors though (or at least, it is a significant aspect in addition to any erector tightness). Heavy unilateral work isn’t good if you have problems with QL and erector tightness. You probably also have a shortened PSOAS and/or weak obliques that are causing you to place all of the load on your back instead of evenly distributing over your pelvis and into the rest of your lower body musculature…
I’ve been told this before by my sports chiro. Now comes the question of what exercise am I going to use now to load the legs??? My guess is that I will once again gradually start back squatting again. Maybe trap bar deadlifts?
The way I see it now is that it is a waste of time to train with tight ES or QL.
I mean, you need to fix the problem before you start loading to a significant degree. Frankly, you may be the perfect example of a case where the leg press/hack squat/some sort of other machine exercise may be optimal for a period of time.
You need to work on strengthening the areas though. Stuff like dead bugs are great (you MUST do them with good form though, regardless of ego) for that.
Fogelson is spot on. The tightness is likely related to inhibition elsewhere, your erectors are tight because they are doing too much work. Your psoas is probably tight AND weak and you might have some adhesions on your obliques, QL and multifidi. Get your body moving the way it should and your performance will jump fairly quickly.
I would hammer the Pillar and Pedestal series and get your glutes working properly. I’m not typically an activation guy but I think it may be appropriate in your circumstance. This doesn’t necessarily mean glute bridges either, just being conscious of your glutes in movements and working on moving through the hips rather than lumbar spine can go a long way.
I’ve been doing a lot of sled dragging and split squats along with some light single leg RDL’s to work on rotating at the hip. The trap bar is a great option, it’s essentially a squat. Dan mentioned them as an alternative for athletes with spinal issues.
I’ve had a lot of success with the non-tripod movement. Very similar to the deadbug progression.
You might want to check out this blog also, some good stuff related to your issue: