To deadlift or not to deadlift?

The “No Deadlift” Deadlift Program.



Different strokes for different folks, I guess. I’m in favor of deadlifting. Last year, I did a deadlift program and saw my max go from 350 to 425 in 8 months time. Here is basically what I did:

–Deadlift, 4 days per week
–heavy weights–between 80-90% of max.–no straps please!
–low volume–only 2 sets of five reps each session.

–Specificity works. I believe to become good at something, you must do THAT task. In our case, to become good at deadlifting, one must deadlift.

As for that program in your link, I’ve never tried it and I’m sure you can increase strength on it, so I guess it would be worth a shot. Now, with that being said, it just seems like a quicker, easier way to make gains in the deadlift would be—to just deadlift?

heatwave13 ,

That’s not a great improvement for 8 months lifting, i’m not trying to insult you but you are clearly misinformed.

That kind of improvement on a properly conducted strength program should occur after only 5-6-7-8 workouts not months!!!

Deadlifting is one of the more taxing exercises and doing them 4 times a week with whatever else you may have been doing will result in ridiculous overtraining, as your own numbers have proved.

How you managed to stay motivated after improving by 2lbs a workout though is impressive but… also depressing.


5 or 6 work outs!!! Thats pretty good. How would you go about setting me up? I DL about 350 now.

What should my routine look like?

It’s proven.

75 lb increase in strength every 5-6 workouts? So that means he should be deadlifting between 1950 to 2270 lb according to your predictions. However he was overtraining so thats why he only gained 75 lb. If he only works out once a week using the best most awsome program known to man, otherwise known as HIT, he would avoid rampant overtraining and be lifting between 750 and 830 instead of a pathetic 425. Only 8 months to a world class deadlift. Hoorah!

Here we go again… :confused:

5 or 6 work outs!!! Thats pretty good. How would you go about setting me up? I DL about 350 now.-nycjay01

Provided you are not already overtrained and you meet the nutritional requirements, then a standard heavy duty consolidation program will see these results.

I understand people on these forums have varying degrees of knowledge and experience so I’m not to be disrespectful to Chris L but I thought it would be obvious I was reffering to what this particular trainee could have achieved in this timeframe with his poundages.

Deadlifters in the 500+ category will not experience 19lb increases every workout. Neither will every trainee for that matter but provided you are fully recovered (4-7 days) your workout is brief (2 exercises, 1 set each) and intense enough (momentary failure) then you will see dramatic increases every workout
(compared to what we’ve been told we should see.)

4-7 days of inactivity is in my experience with sprint coaches why they dislike H.I.T. This is understandable as they want to be out running, but they shouldn’t discredit it’s effectiveness as the ones i’ve met do.


so with your 19lbs every workout deal i could go 9-4-9 at a powerlifting comp within a year. 19lbs, respond away about my tardesque sarcasim but just remember your the one proposeing sHIT training for sprinters when it was orginally concived as a training method for bodybuilders, about the least athletic atheltes on the planet. Look at Dwain Chambers run 6.56 and the bodybuilder run 7.8 yeah, who do the aspireing sprinters on this board want to train to be like the 6.56 man or 7+++++ man, not saying either is training perfectly but i know for sure which one isn’t. Whats your anwser, we all should hit it up like levrone right, right, right RIGHT???
mr.sean jos CS&CS


Dnasty it’s an entertaining post, but it doesn’t really add to the discussion. I love that it’s Levrone in this vid as he is the absolute antithesis of rational scientific training.

I came across an issue of FLEX some time ago where they reported that K-Lev and certain others spend $50-75000 a year on roids and growth hormones.

Do not associate what i’m saying with them. Guys like these oppose HIT.

It was funny though.


People are still waiting for the #'s of these athletes.

so levrone doesn’t ever go to failure in a hit method. I really don’t see how my post didn’t add to the disccussion, levrone and other bodybuilders don’t follow true hit protocals of not doing a damn thing for 4-7 days after working out, but there are some parrells(not squats cause its bodybuilders) think most bodybuilders work in a body part by body part split and really fuck there muscles up and then give them sufficent recovrey, they just don’t do it with bodyweight cal’s for 10 reps and get 800% strength gains. None the less there hitesque methods don’t seem to be produceing people with the ability to win a 35-40 womens masters race let alone a high school/junior’s or collage or professional race. Yet hit is still god’s gift to training and fitness in general and sprint training espically, i wanna drop .38 off my 40 in 15-20 sessions.

also wouldn’t the extras that bodybuilders spend obscene amounts of money on be just a little extra help along with the main component of HIT in giveing them Jesus like athletic abilities transcending all different sports and events(thats pretty much what ya put forth in the infamous hit thread, denie it or not it’s in print).

So contray to what you say about bodybuilders not really doing hit the following are bound to happen due to the bodybuilding communitie’s proper implmentation of hit:

Ronnie Coleman winning the decathlon with a 9,500 point score at the 08 olympics

Jay Cutler with a 3:47 mile with the flu

Dorian Yates comeing out of retirement to win the shot, hammer and discus at worlds.

Provided he’s not already overtrained and he meets the nutritional requirements, what would a standard heavy duty consolidation programme look like?
That was his question, I think!

Well it’s a, uh, program, that’s uh, standard, and uh, heavy duty, and it’s, uh, consolidated. How dumb are you guys?

Sorry for hijacking the thread. I’ll leave this thread alone.

I’m not going to argue about this crap. I know what has worked for me. Yes, I was doing (and occasionally continue to do) four deadlift workouts per week with 80-90% of my max. Two sets of five reps. Overtraining my ass, LOL!! I always felt fresh and could pull a heavy deadlift any time, any day. Low volume is the key. I’m not an expert on routines and methods, but I do know what has enabled me to make HUGE gains in all of my lifts. Heavy weights/low volume. Easy. I also kept my diet in check and did not gain one single pound of bodyweight.

Another key is doing only a few exercises. I’ll often do deadlifts and an upper body move like the overhead military press–same format, similar gains. Training as heavy as possible, as often as possible to stay in the groove, while remaining as fresh as possible. Low volume. Sean, do you see a theme here?

Sorry, but that’s all there is to it. Go ahead with your HIT, like a dog chasing its tail, and remain sore all the time. Meanwhile, I’ll stick with what works for me. YO

We’ve been over this ground before. I’m with Heatwave on this one, following a similar program for years. It maintains or improves strength levels and still leaves enough in the tank for the sprint training. Probably doesn’t make sense if you’re a bodybuilder or weightlifter, but if you’re a sprinter, it’s a reasonable program. As a side note, I do the four times a week arrangement in GPP and then go to a more traditional three times a week right after speed sessions. Once in a while I substitute power or hang cleans for the deadlift. I don’t think there’s a one-size-fits-all approach when it comes to weight training – depends what you’re trying to address, how much time you have, equipment availability, etc.

4-7 days? that sounds like too much rest. At the Milrose games there was a shot putter who can run 4.6 and benches 600 lbs at a BW of 280. I’d say he was strong as an OX and fast and agile to boot. His work out is nothing like what you propose. Come to think of it, none of the shot putters there train with HIT… All power, low reps fast as humanly possible.

How does HIT add power? Can it? Why?

Can you give a sample of how to build up my DL?


Sorry, but that’s all there is to it. Go ahead with your HIT, like a dog chasing its tail, and remain sore all the time. Meanwhile, I’ll stick with what works for me. YO - Heatwave 13

Ignorance is bliss. 2lbs a workout in 35 sessions for someone lifting 350 is an absolute embarrassment .

4-7 days? that sounds like too much rest. At the Milrose games there was a shot putter who can run 4.6 and benches 600 lbs at a BW of 280. I’d say he was strong as an OX and fast and agile to boot. His work out is nothing like what you propose. Come to think of it, none of the shot putters there train with HIT… All power, low reps fast as humanly possible. - nycjay01

Yes i’ve met many shot putters, they too train like powerlifters but the risk of injury in participating in such high force lifting for marginal increases is simply not worth it.
You should incorporate O lifts, the C & J brings into play almost every muscle in the body and develops great overall power and neuromuscular control. Which is of vital importance to athletes. Improvements will correlate to your deadlift performance. Something people may not know is that HIT is also performed as fast as humanly possible, but beacuse of the body weight - resistance ratio it looks very slow.

4-7 days is a long time to sit idle only because we’ve all grown up with the idea that we should train every day, you can of course alternate or cycle them as sprints will convert this strength into specific power, ie speed.

Unlike other training programs which will prescribe workouts for a monday then for wednesday (as if people all had the same amount of recovery ability.) We call them workout 1 & 2 etc, they should be performed with 4-7 days rest.

Workout 1 : Deadlifts 5-8 reps
Close-grip pulldowns 6-10 reps
----------------------------------- 4-7 days
Workout 2 : Squats 8-15 reps
Dips 6-10 reps

This is the base program, designed to develop a more overall strength & power. We are more interested in the hamstrings use as a hip extensior so you can of course substitute the deads for cleans,snatch unless you are a beginner.

The last lot of athletes I worked with (I reported them in ‘HIT baby’) we didn’t actually do deadlifts or pulldowns we did bodyweight exercises (dips,pushups,handstand pushups)but not with bodyweight!!! We used resistance (lots of it), this is where the confusion in here has come from (it would appear Dnasty ‘still dont get it’) although I always made it quite clear.

Try it , there’s no need for an act of faith on your part or to wait around for it to ‘happen’ your improvement will be workout to workout. Again make sure you are adequately nourished, rested and you are able to train with the intensity needed ( I want to hear screams.)

Then come on here and tell me all about it so I can see if you missed anything out (and to get these monkeys of my back.)

But try it man , it fuckin works. Use heatwave13 as motivation, you don’t ever want to end up like that. An inflexible mind, that is one that cannot abandon fixed ideas to determine if a statement is true or false is a sign of low intelligence.



Some people on here are strong, some not so strong. Some people are fast as hell, others aren’t. But we all want to be stronger, and for sure we all want to be faster. We all present our ideas, our experiences, and our results to try and better all our training as a whole. But from time to time, it is nice to see exactly where someone is coming from, to see the results that they have managed to achieve. Where do you stand? You clearly train quite differently than most of us, and what kind transfer has that had for you specifically. What’s your dl, your clean, your squat? What’s your speed like? 40, 60, 100m times? If you are putting up good numbers which it sounds like you are, show us. You’ll have a whole lot more credibility around here, and you’ll get some people really thinking and discussing in a productive manner if you do this. Oh ya, videos and pictures are needed. I’m sure you know someone with a digital camera, and you can upload anything you want to for free. Good luck man.

I had planned on putting a video online straight away but I couldn’t get it worked out, I had asked my best runner Kareem but he said he wouldn’t want some 'intnet gaf ’ mashing his technique. lol. I could get someone to do it but I know they’d want their face blocked or something.

For authenticity I have no photos/videos of athletes before they started with us. So it wouldn’t actually allow me to prove anything as they could just be sprinters i’ve filmed at the club I suppose.

I will put something together though as i’m sure they’d enjoy it too.

As for my strength and speed, well after a few torn tendons in the foot other than stretching I have done no meaningful training in nearly 3 months now ( I know how convenient.) But it was never my ability in question.