A very important point that changes the whole complexion of the subsequent training programme.
The point here of course is ‘aerobic fitness’ (or whatever you call it) is stimulated thru every training component trained
The low intensity in a high/low split should NOT infere with high intensity development. General aerobic development is NOT worked during the game, but rather specific fitness (which may have an aerobic component). Read over CFTS again if you do not understand the idea of high/low split.
someone earlier asked what does “fit” mean. In the words of mike boyle, it is the ability recover quickly. I agree with this definition. Therefore the overall question is in my mind does SE (doing repeat 150-300 meter shuttles at 100% intensity) improve the ability to recover quickly. In my mind these runs are not specific at all to soccer, both in time and distance. But they do provide value because we are not only training energy systems but muscles. And especially for youth players that may have a summer off, these types of runs will prepare muscles for the upcoming season, thus decreasing early season injuries. Now do these runs have an energy specific component to soccer? I think they do, but only in a limited way as mentioned in earlier threads. Maybe doing 1-2 of these every two weeks would suffice. Just my two cents curious to see what others think.
We were primarily talking about pro soccer with a short off-season. In general, the longer the off season, the more componants that must be covered, though even SE would, in my opinion, be covered by split runs of short duration and limited recover and never runs of 20sec or more continuous, as you might find with track runners.
in understand high/low splits… but even though the tempo would be low intensity surely 12000 m/week of running at 70-75% will take a toll on the legs… combine that with the need for sprints and weight training, i’m not so sure it would be optimal for speed gains… maybe i’m overestimating the taxingness of the tempo, but its just my general impression…
Pakewi & Charlie,
What you are saying with 12000m of tempo per week for every player in a team is basically a ‘minimal requirement’ of ‘fitness’ to play the sport (which will make unfit to prepare, and fit to maintain without negative effects of trying to overdevelop the aerobic system and negativelly effect speed), while the playing of the sport will deal with individual differences and positional requirements. Right?
I have used this logic and it seems it worked (our season started, and I will report back, next match is on Friday). I understand the logic… but… Why is ‘12000m of tempo’ in the first place? This depends of the level of the athlete and the level of the play… Why such a magical number?
Also, no one answered my question - show progress in tempo be based on volume increase or volume should be ‘capped’ after reaching a some ammount (12,000m/wk) and progress via decrease in rest time?
Lehi53,
Altought I understand your concern about ‘Shuttles will prepare the muscles not just energy system’, you can prepare muscles without ‘tearing them’ with medball & bw circuits and submax shuttles (tempo runs), soccer poligons (4x4min) etc. Do the 4-6execrices in a row with low rest, then do 2-3x 100-200m runs, then rest a little and repeat.
Omyss,
12,000m of tempo run is ‘nothing’ compare what athletes are used to do in the first couple of weeks of prep period. They have run continuously for 10-14km couple of times per week… We did a little smaller amount of tempo while player were actually having team practices with no problems.
You can split the stuff during the first 1-2 weeks when there are no friendly games and team practice frequincy is pretty low:
Mon: AM: Plyos - Speed - Weights
PM: Team Practices + Small Tempo (1,5k)
Tue: AM: Team Practices (low int) + Large (3k) Tempo
Wed: AM: Plyos - Speed - Weights
PM: Team Practices
Thu: AM: Team Practices (low int) + Large (3k) Tempo
Fri: AM: Plyos - Speed - Weights
PM: Team Practices + Small Tempo (1,5k)
Sat: Large Tempo (3k)
Hope it helps
Finally back to the real world! I was wondering myself why this whole discussion hasn’t been started in the “Humour and things that make you laugh” section beforehand!
We are discussing top level soccer training here as if it were top level sports training,while it is just…soccer,as every European who has been a bit inside it should have a real world idea of .
We’d better apply the same quality discussion criteria to ballet dancing instead!
The value is a judgement call based on what seems to work for sprinters of different distances. As for when you should cap the volume again for me this is a judgement call. The main variable that changes with increased volume is mechanical stress on the bone and connective tissue and you have to make a call about how much a player can take. Certainly I would like to see decreased rest once something like 12000m has been achieved.
I thought I already alluded to this earlier! It may be different in Seria A but training for most players I have seen is often a joke because they are too busy playing or partying!
It’s all going to change though … and very soon …
Be afraid … be very afraid …
While you should ask Charlie about his “magical” numbers (although chances are that,however clear the reasoning behind them is,they might work just fine,you know…),why all this emphasis on such specific variables as “level of the athlete”,and “level of the play” for such a general training mean in the context of soccer training? Aren’t ALL players HUMANS first?
Short soccer (real world) story here: I just had a hard time the past week arguing with a well known Italian sport medicine Doctor and Cardiologist (!) who went lengths trying to show me the evidence of how the muscles of top level (Serie A) soccer players are quite DIFFERENT from anyone else’s muscles! Too bad he was not able to find a single player with the hamstrings originating in the cranial area so far…
Back to us: why does the stimulus provided by Tempo applications have to PROGRESS at all?
I still feel Tempo as defined and proposed by Charlie is being not throughly understood and adequately integrated in planning yet…
Why should Tempo Progress after a certain point?
Once your fit enough to handle the Set amount of Tempo, why push forward? Keep it set the same to maintain what you got, and start improving in other areas with more energy left over;
speed reserve
sport skills
Would be very interested to see this…
I have just received full version of the mentioned article. Haven’t read it yet, but the problem is that they done repeated sprints for 6-sec separated by 1 minute of recovery which is, on my guess, too long… 20-30secs recovery is more appropriate. Also, the test of RSA is 5x30m sprint with 25secs of recovery. Dough!? Hello!!. This may be the reason for the strange results this study found. This study is flawed!
Also, to calculate the fatigue index in RSA test, the best time is splitted with fifth time.
Repeated sprints training produced IMPROVEMENT in best time, while Speed endurance training did not. This may be the reason Fatigue index is improved in Speed endurance training ---- cause repeated sprints IMPROVED best time!
ST = repeated sprints 15x6sec with 1min recovery
SET = Speed endurance 8x30sec @ 130 Vo2max (Dough! NOT THE SAME VOLUME of WORK!!!)
This research is FLAWED!
And where is that point?
How do you know when you are fit enough? How do you know Set ammount of tempo? Got my point here? Charlie said 12,000m and we are aiming at that like lemmings? Not me…
Also, is 12,000m same ‘Set ammount’ for sub18 player as is for national team?
Pakewi,
I work as a S&C coach in a proffesional soccer club (for 2month now to be honest — so I am no expert) that plays second national league. I do not work as an off-season coach and expect that soccer coaches build and proggres uppon my work. My head coach expect from me and my players that I plan the progression and that players progress in a game performance. We do plan progressions in soccer technical & tactical drills and conditioning games and we used tempo as something to prepare them for that progression. We used a progression in tempo tooo… also a progression in speed, strength etc. You get my point? I work with soccer players all the freakin time, not just during the off-season…
AI enjoy reading your posts, but you are being abstractive a lot, without clear plan of action… Tempo, strength and speed? Great for an off-season coach which I am not! Got my point?!
Duxx - could you send on a copy of that paper to me please?
Pakewi, I believe, is not being asbtract on purpose, I think he is commenting on the principles as very scenario is different and as you can appreciate, understanding the principles are key.
Sent!
On my opinion very poorly organized research.
Actually, Speed Endurance training they did in research, was 170m in 30sec which is… drums please… TEMPO SPEED! Thus this is NOT Speed Endurance as defined by Charlie but rather interval aerobic training.
The study sucks for couple of reasons
- SE training used in this study is not Speed Endurance trainig at ALL… its tempo workout.
- Weekly volumes of training were not equaled for two groupls
- Repeat sprint group used non-specific training to improve RSA (test: 20 sec rest, training: 1min rest)
- They haven’t taken into account the improvement in max speed with repeat sprint group when they calculated fatigue index
Dear Charlie, this study is a direct proof of TEMPO workout effectivness… just replace SET with Tempo training group on graph. Congratulations! You can use this study for showing dumb guys like me that tempo is great 
No I don’t.
Neither I see any reason why Tempo Strength and Speed would not work all year long,not only for the poor off season coach (if there exists any!).
Nor I give plans of action for free.
Got mine?
Let’s get a few points straight. I have worked with some top soccer players off-season (and only off-season) and they worked hard. In season is a very different matter with the games covering so much of the training needs.
Regardless of what might go on with some, it is our objective to figure out what SHOULD be done.
As for what sometimes IS, we can go to Georgie Best for a description: “I spent a fortune on booze, birds, and fast cars- the rest I squandered”.
As for flawed testing,: How can this be news when tests are so often full of shit.
interesting bit of research here.
Duxx, what are 4x4 circuits you talked about?
Here is some interesting research about high intensity training for soccer.
The effect of in-season, high-intensity interval training in soccer players.
* Dupont G,
* Akakpo K,
* Berthoin S.
Laboratory of Human Motor Studies, Faculty of Sports Science and Physical Education, University of Lille 2, France.
The effects of in-season, high-intensity interval training on professional male soccer players’ running performances were investigated. Twenty-two subjects participated in 2 consecutive training periods of 10 weeks. The first period was considered a control period and was compared with a period where 2 high-intensity interval training exercises were included in the usual training program. Intermittent runs consisted of 12-15 runs lasting 15 seconds at 120% of maximal aerobic speed alternated with 15 seconds of rest. Sprint repetitions consisted of 12-15 all-out 40-m runs alternated with 30 seconds of rest. Results from the high-intensity interval training have shown that maximal aerobic speed was improved (+8.1 +/- 3.1%; p < 0.001) and that the time of the 40-m sprint was decreased (-3.5 +/- 1.5%; p < 0.001), whereas no change in either parameters were observed during the control period. This study shows that improvements in physical qualities can be made during the in-season period.
I didn’t said they ‘would not work all year long’, but I wanted to say that I have to juggle with more elements than that all year round.