The Role of BW, Medball & Plate circuits and complexes

Other Sports Soccer
1

It seems that recently athletes and coaches are massivelly jumping into HIIT & Complexes bandwagon. Without having clear goal on mind BTW. Everybody is doing it, then hell, lets do that ourself too…

I guess that CF’s Medball Tempo work can be also classified more as a circuit workout, hitting small muscle groups, core, arms with medball. The purpose is blood flushing and active recovery, along with some strength endurance work, core work, etc. The fatigue developed is thus Low Intensity. I guess that medball weight is up to 5-6k?

Last season I have done with our GK some form of metabolic conditioning with plate (10kg):

A1. Circles around the body 8x each side
A2. Push-ups + plate on back 12-15
A3. Bend over rows (to stomach, to face) 12-15
A4. Side-Split Sqaut 8x each leg
A5. Side Bridge 20-30sec
repeat 2x

B1. Lunge 8x each leg
B2. Push-Ups + plate on back 12-15
B3. Sumo DL 12-15
B4. Plate raise + press 12-15
B5. RDL/Butt Bridge 12-15
B6. Low back plate presses/circles 10+5+5+10
repeat 2x

The goal was fat loss (man I was dumb :)), aerobic/metabolic conditioning, strength endurance…

Recently, the Hill-Haas et al*. showed that high-rep short rest training results in improvement in RSA (without reporting VO2max, vVO2max, or some indirect test to assess aerobic power/capacity). The mechanism may be greater muscle buffering of H+.

Another example may be complexes done with the same bar

A1. Clean 5x
A2. Front Squat 5x
A3. Push Press 5x
A4. RDL 5x
A5. Row 5x

I wouldn’t recomend this approach with technique lacking athletes. Cosgreve is main proponent of this kind of work (metabolic conditioning).

Another example may be BW circuits.

A1. Jump squats/Burpees 10x
A2. Push-Ups 12-15x
A3. Lunges 12-15x
A4. Mount-Climbers 12-15x
A5. Jump Rope etc

I wonder does this kind of training have its place in training system of the team player? What is the purpose of this training and how to implement it in week schedule? What kind of faigue this works develops – High Intensity, Medium Intensity or Low Intensity fatigue?
*

Effects of rest interval during high-repetition resistance training on
strength, aerobic fitness, and repeated-sprint ability
S. HILL-HAAS, D. BISHOP, B. DAWSON, C. GOODMAN, & J. EDGE
Journal of Sports Sciences, April 2007; 25(6): 619 – 628
Abstract
The effect of altering the rest period on adaptations to high-repetition resistance training is not well known. Eighteen active
females were matched according to leg strength and repeated-sprint ability and randomly allocated to one of two groups.
One group performed resistance training with 20-s rest intervals between sets, while the other group employed 80-s rest
intervals between sets. Both groups performed the same total training volume and load. Each group trained 3 days a week for
5 weeks [15- to 20-repetition maximum (RM), 2 – 5 sets]. Repeated-sprint ability (566-s maximal cycle sprints), 3-RM leg
press strength, and anthropometry were determined before and after each training programme. There was a greater
improvement in repeated-sprint ability after training with 20-s rest intervals (12.5%) than after training with 80-s rest
intervals (5.4%) (P¼0.030). In contrast, there were greater improvements in strength after training with 80-s rest intervals
(45.9%) than after training with 20-s rest intervals (19.6%) (P¼0.010). There were no changes in anthropometry for either
group following training. These results suggest that when training volume and load are matched, despite a smaller increase in
strength, 5 weeks of training with short rest periods results in greater improvements in repeated-sprint ability than the same
training with long rest periods.

2

Good thread Mladen!

As you point out complexes have become were popular lately and I think they are being used to much. In my previous club were we trained 5-6times/week the coach only used complexes and circuit training (3times/week, complex was the same as your A1. Clean example) and my experience from that is that many of the guy’s used to light weights to be able to complete the task and made were small gains in maximal strength. The strength endurance that was gained got lost a few weeks into the season as the coach dropped the complex sessions.

I think complexes are great in that you can work through the entire body fast. I plan to use them this winter with my team since we only train 3-4times/week. They will consist of 4-5exercises with about 3min rest between sets (eg. when a partner does the same complex). Hence there will only be a moderate metabolic load and I will also make sure that they increase in strength. If they don’t I will either split the complexes into two parts and/or put them in groups of 3 instead.

Regarding the Hill-Haas study you have to take into account that the study was made on previously active but not well trained women with no previous experience from strength training. There is only on other study looking at the effect of rest interval on RSA and that study used men who were currently strength training.
http://nsca.allenpress.com/nscaonline/?request=get-abstract&doi=10.1519%2F1533-4287(1995)009<0216:EODWTE>2.3.CO%3B2
They didn’t match the work between groups so the groups performed work in relation to rest time (more work with more rest, naturally). The result was that there was no difference between groups in RSA performance after the intervention. This could be explained by
[ol]
[li]The difference in nr of sprints between the studies
[/li][li]By the fact that the men were better trained when starting the intervention
[/li][li]That the work performed in the groups weren’t match (the longer rest groups compensated for the smaller metabolic stress by working longer).
[/li][/ol]
I made almost the same discussion as above in my thesis on RSA, coming to no real conclusion because of lacking research in the area. Since I know that you like to get all the information before drawing conclusions I have sent the full article to your mail so you can make your own interpretation of it :wink:

3

Thanks for joining in Guddi.

When it comes to strength training, IMO complexes are mostly crap, waiting for injury to happen (talking about clean, FS, press, RDL, row kinda complexes). They ain’t gonna build strength and will demand for technically prepared athlete (btw, soccer players are not that kind of athletes). Cleaning the weight 1-3x plus some FS 1-5x may improve functional muscle mass (see Vermeil), but thats it.

As a side note: most, if not 100% of strength coaches in soccer utilize CIRCUITS in the gym! This way they use all the machines in the gym, and have an easy organization format (little this, little that, switch…). This is for two reasons: (a) they are stupid and they don’t know what they are doing or trying to achieve or (b) they are freakin lazy to spend some time organizing the training.

As for your situation, I would NOT do complexes! I would do SQUATS 3x/wk until they stagnate :slight_smile: Then I would use modified Tier System (in the case you haven’t read Joe Kenn’s book, go and get it ASAP — Coaches strength training playbook) simple as that.

If you want strength… then be simple: squats, DL, bench, military, rows, pull-ups, RDL and a single leg stuff now and then.

This is clear to me, but what is the ‘benefit’ of adding circuits or complexes to strength training routine already in place? What’s the point? I guess real complexes (clean, squat… with a bar) don’t have any real purpose in team sports with strength training already in place. But what about circuits and mini circuits (plate, medball, BW)? Is there any benefit of doing them on aerobic capacity/power, RSA, SpecialEndurance… active recovery, general strength [endurance], muscle buffering, fat loss, tendon strength [anatomical adaptation]??? As for SE/RSA, isn’t it better to run or perform sport specific stuff instead of doing circuits?

I am about to start working with 90’ and 91’ generation in our club. This is about 50 kids. I plan 2x/wk strength training plus one time per week two mini circuits (see GK example) on metabolic conditioning day…

4

I would do SQUATS 3x/wk until they stagnate

For soccer players? Mmm… hard to implement, manage and rip the fruits from, don’t you think?
If you did it already, how did you organize it?
In the best case scenario we have 3 racks and two strength training dedicated sessions a week, in the worst no rack and one dedicated session a week.

but what about circuits and mini circuits (plate, medball, BW)?

I like your GK circuits but, have you trained the soccer players with medballs? They are quite different in their physical reactions than other sportmen to such training.

5

I was hoping you will join in.
Regarding squats 3x/wk. Very appropriate for begginers. This will yield the fastest strength increse without overreaching (see Practical Programming book). After platoue creeps in, intermediate variation may start.
Regarding organization… We had one squat rack!!! We had three staggered groups comming to the gym every 20min (see my ‘manual’ and thread: 30players in one session).
Now we have two squat rack.

We have extensivelly used medballs, but mostly for explosive stuff. I didn’t understand last part of your post? Do you mean plates should be changed with medball? What is your opinion regarding this circuits??? When should they be done (HI days or LO days). Thanks

6

egarding squats 3x/wk. Very appropriate for begginers. This will yield the fastest strength increse without overreaching

Yes, I know the theory and practice, but I don’t think I would be allowed three days in the gym with most teams, at least during the season. I also doubt the efficiency of such approach in season.

We have extensivelly used medballs, but mostly for explosive stuff.

How heavy? I use 5Kg medballs.

What is your opinion regarding this circuits??? When should they be done (HI days or LO days).

I like those circuits. GK have a different microcycle than the rest of the team but given the fact that I don’t work with GKs, my suggestion would be just speculative and as such you can get to my possible answer by yourself, if you catch what I mean…

Too many people speculate about sports/realities they don’t have a real clue about, don’t let me join the ranks. :wink:

7

In In-season I planned to do (note the word planned) Lower/Upper split with first team, and two full body workout with bench guys.
Doing squats EVERY training session is great way to bring results ASAP with begginers, but if you have issues with this even with begginers, especially in in-season (‘heavy legs’) then more appropariate schedule is needed. I have couple of solutions. One is Upper/Lower split, and second is two full body workouts where you emphasise one exercise (3-5setc HARD) (1st session lower, 2nd session upper body) and MAINTAIN other exercises (1-2sets MEDIUM-EASY).

We have used 3kg medball.

As for circuit… I will try it in due course and maybe report results :slight_smile:

8

Doing squats EVERY training session is great way to bring results ASAP with begginers, but if you have issues with this even with begginers, especially in in-season (‘heavy legs’) then more appropariate schedule is needed. I have couple of solutions. One is Upper/Lower split, and second is two full body workouts where you emphasise one exercise (3-5setc HARD) (1st session lower, 2nd session upper body) and MAINTAIN other exercises (1-2sets MEDIUM-EASY).

This is similar to what I do with my individual sport athletes in the MxS phase. But nothing like that with soccer players.

9

After hearing Al speak about Javorek’s complexes, and reading about AC’s thoughts on them for fat loss, I think they can be used to help with those who need to shed fat.

With one individual, I’ve been using Al’s complex for the past month with 2 other tri sets, and he has dropped fat in the past month. Diet hasn’t changed, and he does weights 3x/week with a typical workout looking like this:

Complex: 6 reps each continuously
Upright row
Muscle snatch
Squat and press
Bent over row

Tri set 1

quad dom
stretch
pull

Tri set 2

hip dom
stretch
push

10

As a side note: most, if not 100% of strength coaches in soccer utilize CIRCUITS in the gym! This way they use all the machines in the gym, and have an easy organization format (little this, little that, switch…). This is for two reasons: (a) they are stupid and they don’t know what they are doing or trying to achieve or (b) they are freakin lazy to spend some time organizing the training.

count me out of that one i dont go near them with my team…

as for the gym sessions we are now in season and its 1 session a week if we have a 7 day week, where as next week we only have a 5 day turnaround so there is no gym on the program.

11

Think no gym, two olympic bars with a total of 80kg weight to put on them and you will realise that squats aren’t an option. We are about 20-25 players every session and we don’t have a day designated to strength and conditioning but instead put it after a normal 40-50min session with technique and tactics. So I get about 40-50minutes with the players after two sessions and in that time I try to work through their entire bodies with an emphasis on lower body and agility.

I do a lot of single leg stuff to get their leg strength up. We have vests weighing up to 10kg that the strong players get to wear while doing single leg squats and that works their legs pretty good. We also have two dumbbells (up to 20kg each) that the players can hold if the vest isn’t enough. Hamstrings are done with good mornings, single leg deadlifts and a balance ball (sort of the way that Michael Boyle uses the sliding boards).

The complexes I use on one of the days to work the upper body of the players fast so I get more time for the lower body exercises. I also use them as a way to teach them to do clean and jerk that we use during the season as maintenance.

You have to realize that I’m on a whole other level than you guys, mine are armatures and the club has very little money to invest in the players. This is the way in most clubs in Sweden.

I haven’t read the book, it’s on my lit for Christmas shopping now :slight_smile:

12

Aaaaahaaaaa! :slight_smile:
In that case, circuits (quad-sets, tri-sets) are appropriate. Try using SL variations (as you pointed), floor-press, loaded push-ups, pull-ups, dips.

13

Squatting 3 times a week with soccer players??
Have yet to find a team going 3 times in the gym to squat…low level proteams mostly use a “sacred” weekly split…meaning Monday nothing Tuesday/wednesday trianing…thursady rest…friday training light…(or the reversa, with saturnday refinition…)…many time add a mid week friendly match…
Please post you results Mladen

14

I do a lot of single leg stuff to get their leg strength up. We have vests weighing up to 10kg that the strong players get to wear while doing single leg squats and that works their legs pretty good. We also have two dumbbells (up to 20kg each) that the players can hold if the vest isn’t enough. Hamstrings are done with good mornings, single leg deadlifts and a balance ball (sort of the way that Michael Boyle uses the sliding boards).

The complexes I use on one of the days to work the upper body of the players fast so I get more time for the lower body exercises. I also use them as a way to teach them to do clean and jerk that we use during the season as maintenance.

I believe that you have too few instruments to work efficiently with a whole team. I might be wrong, though.

My credo is that when the team works, the whole team is doing something and the whole team progress on the same things together (or try to). This is more important with amateurs, who don’t have the same drive as professionals (but not always so in both ways).

I strength train the lowest level team I work with using medballs almost exclusively.

15

Charlie,
What type of fatigue would BW ‘interval training’ cause? For example:

15 push-ups
10 burpees
10 pull-ups
20 mountain climbers
15 push-ups
10 rhythmical split squat jumps
rest 40-60sec, etc, etc

This kind of circuits are usually done by boxers, kick boxers, etc (see Ross Enemait stuff) and I wonder do they have its place in soccer, especially with GKs.

Would this be considered as Low Intensity and put on Tempo Days? I especially wonder on burpees, jump squats, rhythmical split squats (scissors).

16

I have done some circuits with BW and 10kg plate with injured GK (meniscus) and back (calf injury) yesterday for the purpose of work capacity development without running (which is currently contraindicated for both of them).

  1. Medball passes (20 chect, 20 overhead, 20 hip each side)
  2. Circles around the body w/10kg plate 10each side (GK had some issues here and done overhead box squat)
  3. Push-ups 15
  4. RDL 15
  5. Plate Row 15
  6. Sumo DL 15
  7. Curl & Press 15
  8. Some ab exercise
  9. Repeat for 2x times then rest

The circuits last aproximatelly 6-7mins.

Another circuit I have done with GK is wall medball (3K) drills. He did

  1. Chest pass 30
  2. Overhead pass 30
  3. Side pass 20 + 20
  4. Slam the ground 30

The rhythm was fast, and the duration of the circuits is around 1’30’’. The recovery is 1:1. HR reached 180bpm.

Thoughts?

17

Duxx,

The 4 exercise circuit you mentioned resembles “Black widows”…Is this true? I have used similar circuits and when done right are complete ball busters. I like using them to save athletes legs but still get HR up.

18

I use it for the same purpose!

19

Charlie,
What type of fatigue would BW ‘interval training’ cause? For example:

15 push-ups
10 burpees
10 pull-ups
20 mountain climbers
15 push-ups
10 rhythmical split squat jumps
rest 40-60sec, etc, etc

This kind of circuits are usually done by boxers, kick boxers, etc (see Ross Enemait stuff) and I wonder do they have its place in soccer, especially with GKs.

Would this be considered as Low Intensity and put on Tempo Days? I especially wonder on burpees, jump squats, rhythmical split squats (scissors).

20

yes it would