What are everyones thoughts on the Hatch System for sports? Does anyone know what kind of speed training they do because from what Ive read its explosive lifting, plyo’s and endurance training(something like 26 100’s w/ one recovery)?
Not familiar with the system…do you have a link with more details?
Basically the Miami, LSU, and Tennesee programs. It places a large emphasis on oly lifts(virtually no laying down lifts) and only a couple of strength training movements to help with explosion through the hip. I dont know much about the track program, but I know they perform 26 100’s on the last day of each training week w/ 50 sec between reps. It looks good to me besides the lack of sprinting, I think because football isnt a max speed sport but an acc. sport they focus on oly lifts/hip speed strength movements and plyos to develop maximum acc. and the 100’s at the end of the week plus the overall volume of weight training and plyo as conditioning. Looks to have worked so far as those teams are the fastest and most dominant in football.
26 x 100m with 50s rest?!?!? Why?
Are those teams fastest/most dominant because of their training program or in spite of it? They have also been able to recruit some of the most talented athletes. In addition, their coaches are great teachers and have excellent systems…football is a team and skill game as well.
The emphasis is on mental toughness and conditioning, and development of explosion through weight room and sport specific drills(ie 7 on 7, agility drills, etc… to get more “specific” speed). True but just an interesting fact that the teams that last the longest and are fastest tend to use this system. I dont know though, the Hatch rule held true last night. 4 years after installment a national title, happened with TN, then Miami, and now LSU, they could have something there. Im not suggesting no running for speed, maybe like you do your track workouts(very low volume, mostly acc), work on explosiveness in the gym also, and have the last day of the week be a day when you run for endurance(ie 8x100 w/ 90 sec rest or 8x40 w/ 90 sec rest, something like that). My plan is low volume, high speed/acc/quality sprints(acc. is more important in football so I work that twice a week, 4 sprints a session, and max V once a week again w/ 4 with long recoveries), go lift w/ emphasis on RFD and on the last day after weights go run the 8x40m w/ 90 sec rest, because then I have three days before I train again.
The old ‘mental toughness’ arguement. This one never ceases to make me laugh when when I hear someone justify trash, non-specific training (or detraining depending on your bent) with the ‘it develops mentally tough athletes’ story. Were in 2004 not 1964. The sooner these old school coaches retire the better!
I agree with XLR8. WHY, WHY, WHY???
Theres more to it then mental toughness, just a comment from one of the players when I read about it. Its about expressing speed under fatigue, and well its kind of hard to argue with the results its produced(Miami, LSU, Tennesee some of most dominant, fastest, explosive, longest lasting teams in college)
Are you talking about the influence on Tom Moffitt(who was the s and c coach at all those schools-asst at UT) by Gayle Hatch? Gayle Hatch oly. weightlifting club in La.
Exactly. from what Ive read when Moffit was a highschool coach he was given the system(basic outline) and has since applied it with great success, and it remains the hatch system, thats why i didnt mention his name earlier.
I agree xlr8. I’ve been highly critical of some strength coaches (jeff madden at the university of texas, andreu swasey at university of miami, etc.). Working with superior athletes is not difficult work. Put those coaches at UTEP or Vanderbilt and see how good everyone thinks they are. I think with athletes like ricky williams, roy williams, vincent young, jeremy shockey, clinton portis, andre johnson, jeremy shockey, kellen winslow, jr., etc., etc., etc. just about any “strength & conditioning” program would suffice. What defines success? Player development is a difficult and precise science. In spite of these coaches, these athletes succeed. Anyone who has ever actually had a conversation with one of these teams head coaches will realize how little the strength and sport coaches really know about performance.
I agree. Many of these top level(certainly not all of them as some of them are quite good)s and c coaches achieve good results because of the athletic talent they have been blessed to work with-Michigan comes to mind with their HIT program, etc. Let some of these “great” coaches work with merely good talent and then lets see just how successful their programs would be then. I would guess Moffitt does some good speed workouts. I saw him and John Stucky(former UT head strength coach) in 1995 in Atlanta at a Speed Dynamics seminar and for all of it’s shortcomings as a program that have been discussed on this site it is still a world better than some mega-volume incomplete recovery running progam.
http://2theadvocate.com/stories/122603/spo_hatch001.shtml
Here’s the article that was referenced, but never linked.
Yeah, good article. Nothing surprising. Blah, blah, blah, o-lifts this, plyometric that. I’ve submitted an article on the benefits and risks of olympic lifts that they may publish on the site, if not and one of you would like a copy, i’ll send it to you via e-mail, let me know.
I’m not disputing that Hatch is a legendary name in US weightlifting and obviously had an influence on some of these strength coaches but he sure is quick to throw his own name around. Maybe that article is presenting him in a light different than the real man but he sure is quick to talk about HIMSELF and HIS influences on these guys.
The idea of 8x40’s appears far more ideal than 26x100’s numba56.
Being invovled in Rugby Union in the sth hemisphere, so I say from an outsider looking in, that 26x100’s for eg should be considered trash training. Sucess in spite of training for sure! No ‘less talented’ athlete could possibly succeed in the NFL with this type of grounding I wouldn’t have thought?
Rugby Union has far more lactic and aerobic emphasis that american football and there’s no way anyone involved in would prescribe 26x100’s as a training tool (I hope!!). I can’t see that in what is such a fractured game, play wise, that anything but high-intensity repeated strength and and speed endurance would be appropriate for american football from a conditioning standpoint. The recent increased speed of the game of rugby union can be attributed to the tactical changes made by coaches which in turn has lead to a more anaerobic, speed oriented training system. In a game that is far more endurable than american football , union has embraced the notion that speed and all its sub components are the dominat physical qualities a rugby union athlete can posess. So this being the case, how could this part of the Hatch system be considered anything but detraining?
Speedkills- always keen to read other peoples opinons, please send me a copy, Thanks muchly. kinmsa@hotmail.com
I don’t think Hatch’s system included the conditioning. I think it’s probably program-specific. He’s just behind the strength portion with the incorporation of olympic lift variants.
26x110 yards does seem a little overboard. It would help mentally I guess. However, it’s not like most players would ever run more than 60 yards a few times, so it doesn’t seem very suitable for their goals.
Speed Kills, interesting you bring up Madden’s name. Madden had a great deal of success with player/athlete development at UNC and Colorado before before going to Texas. I don’t believe most would say that the athletes at UNC and Colorado were/are on the same level as the athletes Texas recruits?
You’re kidding, right! Are we talking about the same colorado and the same north carolina. I agree Texas has more talented recruits but it still has more to do with their lack of actual development as players, and let’s face it, athletes in general. Madden’s successes are more of a result of the “caliber” of athlete that mack brown has provided with his uncanny recruiting skills. Why do you think madden is at texas in the first place. It seems illogical to me to assume that it’s madden’s work and not mack brown’s recruited athletes that have created the success! Have you ever seen a texas football team in the 4th quarter! Pathetic. Texas lives and dies on high-caliber recruits that never seem to improve but are good enough to be competitive on raw talent alone. Why is Oklahoma kicking their butts? I think it’s great recruiting combined with jerry schmidt’s outstanding strength program. Jacob Gutierrez, a close family friend, is going to oklahoma on a football scholarship and has put 40 pounds on an already impressive bench press of 380 pounds and has made significant gains in strength and speed since attending OU. At Texas, he would already have a knee injury! I stand by my assessment.
This is on point. Many close to the Texas program are not big fans of Madden, but if anyone criticizes Madden they have to suffer Mack’s defensive attitude. Texas basically gets away on talent, but coaching and the overall attitude and approach to the game are bigger factors than S&C.
I hope Gutierrez doesn’t turn into the next Q. Someone said on this board that OU’s program was pretty basic. Just cleans, squats, and presses, but that it was really high volume.
If you want to see what a good S&C program + excellent talent and coaching can do, then look at USC.
Anyone, know the exact program with percentages lifted in the hatch system, possibly also the running/plyos placed in it by the football programs who use it.