Have to disagree there.
The working of the hams in static movements is interetsing
disagree with what?
What you said …
Why use half squats?
To recruit hamstrings more?
hamstring recruitment usually does occur at the bottom of a full squat.
I dont know but i squat similarly to how i box squat and i get nothing but hamstring / glute involvement. Very little quads. Shins as close to parallel as possible and sittin back not down.
In fact i mostly box squat these days and im getting good results in terms of ham strength, speed gains and squat gains. Although im sure the speed gains are down to the fact that im doing much more of a complete program too as i had stopped my plyo’s for a long period.
if your doing half squats and your getting mostly glute and ham involvment then you are performing the movement wrong.
Depends on stance. Also depends on your definition of half squat.
Effective for improving hamstring control and involvement in the sprint leading to an increase in speed. Thats WHAT. The hamstrings are as I am sure your have read are very important for the sprint, that can be deduced from the amount of injuries sustained (in not just T&F but other sports involving sprinting) by the hamstring group, and of course the numerous studies by biomechanists identifying the hams THE prime movers of the sprint.
Acquiring the co-ordination and firing patterns needed for the hamstring group, requires a plethora of exercises to progress them. The biarticular role of the hams ensures this. You must be doing ATLEAST two exercise for the hams in my experience to benefit. I have found that training the hams TOO FREQUENTLY in the weights room causes competition between ham strength exercises and sprints. So; the exercises are moved to the end of the week and trained ONCE A WEEK. The effect of sprints, plyo and then hams strength exercises at the end of the week are more than enough you could do 1 set or 2 of ham exercises on the other speed days BUT in my experience its TOO MUCH.
The ham protocol ONCE A WEEK on the last speed day I use is as follows:
Ham curls as described above in my previous post
Squat (minor)
Deadlift (major)
Reverse hypers (LIGHT LOAD) 6-8 reps/ 1-2 sets
Glute ham raise (LIGHT LOAD) 6-8 reps/1-2 sets
ONCE A WEEK is all that is needed for the hams, as they are trained in the sprints, tempo, and hops during the week.
If done properly the effect on your speed will be noticeable.
Duxx, my experience is in the field it works its not from a book that I read, its come about from experience not because Mel Siff or Verkoshansky or who ever said xyz.
The hams are very important and a range of exercises are needed becasue it acts on two joints, innervation and co-ordination of the hams string group must be the aim but the volume of exercises on the hams must be considered as coming from not only sprints but, tempo, weights and plyo.
biomechancically speaking your wrong. neurologically you dont want your hamstrings active at this joint angle because it results ina cocontraction.
i have no problem training my hams and the rest of my body everyday. always seemed funny to me that we use our bodies as a whole everyday yet we break up the training of your bodies into its segments, ie legs this day back this day chest this day as if soem days we hit the track and dont use are back.
I wasn’t talking about what you want. I just said hamstring activity will vary according to stance and joint angles (depth) in the squat.
Why do you feel the need to overcomplicate everything?
i didnt kno that biomechanics was an overcomplication. its not what i want it is what is. and just because its complicated to you does not mean that it is complicated to me. it is what it is, ive spent time studying the SCIENCE behind this so i know that the favoralbe musce action is balistic relying on the feedforward system not cocontraction relying on the feedback system. that means to get the most out of the squat the hamstrings should be active at a certain joint angle and then the quads. why becasue training this way allows for those individual muscles to fire at a joint angle which is most effeceient allowing the greatest display of force. complicated? not really but maybe u should complicate things a little unless you arent interested in getting the most out of your body.
So what do you do in a squat from a biomechanical perspective that is different from the norm? How do you avoid cocontraction? How would you explain the execution of the squat (or ghr) to an athlete without making their head spin?
You sure have some strong opinions. Have you used these opinions to produce a good sprinter?
I’ve read elsewhere in a squat you’re supposed to “pull yourself down” with the hamstrings I believe it is. I never understood how to do that. I can see and feel getting tight in the leg muscles before squatting but never grasped the “pulling down” part. To me it’s controlling the force of gravity while bending the knees and lowering the hips. If there is a way to literally pull yourself down, I would prefer doing it that way–more control.
I would enjoy viewing a video or photo the “proper ghr bench”.
Also, I think some of us need to review dynamic correspondance before discussing specific exercise importance.
I do agree with Dan Pfaff in regards to certain exercises performed in a certain manner build the necessary “batteries” an athletes needs.
James with all due respect, the bottom line is…the pursuit of speed. Triathletes and marathoners can use their bodies for hours, train for hours, but are they running fast?
The point is… are they able to achieve 11+ m/s? You have no problem training your hams EVERYDAY, at the same intensity? At high speeds? What do you mean? Please expand…
You make such statements like the fact that you believe in a zillion contacts in plyometric training…yet is the effort equated to faster times? Word of advice, those scientific books you love to quote are not always correct and in fact are very misleading.
I agree with Mortac8 on this…well James?
Sorry to be picking on your statements James but the hamstrings are biarticular muscles, they act on both joints you can not escape that fact
lets look at it logically. what is a sprint but a series of balistic powerful contractions. now ofcourse it is more complex than that when you talk of other issues such as form ect. even if you do what charlie calls tempo work the fores expereineced are far greater than what most people expereience in the weightrroom. so our goal is not only powerful muscle contractions but the ablity to produce these contraction more than once. yet anything other than maximal will have a negative effect on peak out put or in this case peak speed. what is logical, place the body under situations where it has no choice to turn on maximally. train like this long enough and you will find things like cns fatigue as most of the ppl on this site understand them fade away. im attacking dogma that is why there is so much ressitance to say that you can train maximally over and over to say that you can train the entire body everyday. when most of us started training we believe the more we train the faster the results. the more we max bench the faster our max goes up. we were told that we were wrong but in reality we were right only we did not have the knowledge to understand that the body ability to adapt is based on its ablity to recover. so in essence if you could train 100 times a day and recover from the load you would make gains 100 times faster than a person who trained only once a day. i wont delve to deep into the neurological realities of this assertion as you seem caught up on the biological. my assertion here is simple muscle fatigues greatly one when its not used effeciently. this produces low grade inflamation. inflamation is a disruption to homeostasis. and two our bodies naturally contract the muscles when they become fatigued or injured, it is a protective mechanism but is neurological so it can be reporgramed. when muscle constricts it is less able to absorb force and thefore less able to display force. muscle is more likly to become injured because at the most basic level all injury comes from the inablity of the body to absorb force. you stuck in the dogma most plp think all there is is variations on set and reps when it comes to strength training. there are so many more mehtods. and the right ones will break down the neurological barriers which prevent a person from performing maximally more often. is there a limit… ofcourse. but in reality it is set far further than a max squat once a week or a max sprint once every 10 days. keep tissue elongated via neurological pathways, use your muscle in the most effecient manner so that low grade inflamation does not develop, and put the body under situations where it has no choice but to maximally recruit its motor pool and you will find the results interesting.
p.s. maybe you can tell me which books i shouldnt be reading or rather which books i have been reading since you seem to have been to my library. or even better what theories have you established to combat those in the books that i have read that you know about.
James there you go again…common do you have anything to add yourself? If I wanted to know about SSC and the adaptation of the body to training and so on I would get in touch with the primary source. I must give it to you, your spiel has an effect…its head spinning but does not offer any practical solutions. Word of advice, do not re-invent the wheel yes dogma exists but listen to those in the field, those who have achieved what you are aiming to emulate don’t spend your time unnecessarily over experimenting or theorising otherwise you will end up being an experiment with no end product.