The Anti-Catabolic Cocktail (Blackstarlabs.com)

[system]

Here is something I swear by. Athletes involved with doubles or more sessions per day and or ectomorphic do very well with this formula. Here is what my philosophy with protein supplementation.

I suggest that if you are involved with heavy training (pushing yourself and not trying to be a pretty boy with those club shirts that are tight). Here is what I found.

You can get this from Blackstarlabs and the stuff rocks (yes I will be posting articles on various online mags besides RL)

Clemson Anticataboic Cocktail (take 2 times between/after sessions-not post workout)

25 grams of Micellar Casein (Blackstarlabs frutropical)
3-5 grams of HMB
5-10% Immunogrow
5 grams of Glutamine ( I find that only severe training benefits here, other wise glutamine that effective and may be worthless)
.25 grams Vitamin C
cup of crushed ice cubes
8-12 oz of Coconut milk from cocogem
one tiny part of a banana (remember this optional and this is a P and F meal combo)

consume at 10am and 10pm and destroy everyone!

Try it out…

By the way I am not a blackstarlabs employee or profit financially from this. I endorse only what works. My example is the fraid nots ropes…they cost 9.95 and they are used for stretching (comes with a manual and exercise sheet). Tom drum is the man and his product is worth it. One supplement company contacted me 3 months ago to endorse their product line for 10 grand a year and I could not sell out since they sucked.

[no23]

@Clemson

Clemson Anticataboic Cocktail (take 2 times between/after sessions-not post workout)

25 grams of Micellar Casein (Blackstarlabs frutropical)
3-5 grams of HMB
5-10% Immunogrow
5 grams of Glutamine ( I find that only severe training benefits here, other wise glutamine that effective and may be worthless)
.25 grams Vitamin C
cup of crushed ice cubes
8-12 oz of Coconut milk from cocogem
one tiny part of a banana (remember this optional and this is a P and F meal combo)

Is this the ‘Clemson Cocktail’ you’ve spoken about before ?

[system]

nope…one of the dozen or so cocktails! The postworkout will be up later…the rest will be sent to you lablounge guys.

[no23]

• This is for swimmers primarily? - just wondering what body weight (about 170~ or so?)
• Do you find the extra 5 grams of Glut. makes a difference considering the profile of casein as opposed to Whey?
  Having said that - if this is the last shake before bed the 5 grams of Glut should be a good idea.

The HMB - I can’t comment on, though I’d consider it a ‘nice-to-have’ rather than a ‘must-have’

• Is Immunogrow a BSL’s product or a US off-the-shelf product?

• Any need for Vit E as well?

• I guess some Ecto’s that are trying to gain more can even just throw in the whole 'nanana?

(Sorry for all the questions by the way Clemson)

[no23]

@Clemson

nope…one of the dozen or so cocktails! The postworkout will be up later…the rest will be sent to you lablounge guys.

A dozen?

Wow - You’re the big white hairy Martha Stewart for the athlete world…

[Blinky]

What is so special about this drink? and why wouldn’t you consume more carbs to promote recovery?

[athlete]

could you substitute coconut oil (from wilderness naturals) for the coconut milk? is so what would be the dosage?

-wondering the same questions as no23 so i wont bother reposting them.

looking forward to the cocktails as well.

[sprinterl]

Blinky has a point.

During prolonged exercise, proteolysis accounts for approximately 5% of total ATP production. Obviously, then, it’s important to ingest protein. Certainly this cocktail is useful to prevent protein breakdown by chalking the blood up with amino acids, but shouldn’t more sugars be necessary to promote what we’re really after: growth?

[athlete]

i think this cocktail is specific to anti-catabolic properties rather than intended for optimal ‘growth’…im sure clemson has specific formulas for ‘growth’ in his bag of goodies

[sprinterl]

What do ya’ got, Clemson?

[Herb]

@sprinterl

Blinky has a point.

During prolonged exercise, proteolysis accounts for approximately 5% of total ATP production. Obviously, then, it’s important to ingest protein. Certainly this cocktail is useful to prevent protein breakdown by chalking the blood up with amino acids, but shouldn’t more sugars be necessary to promote what we’re really after: growth?

I believe Clemson is not interested in growth but in recovery. As he said: “(pushing yourself and not trying to be a pretty boy with those club shirts that are tight).”

[prophet]

@Clemson

Here is something I swear by. Athletes involved with doubles or more sessions per day and or ectomorphic do very well with this formula. Here is what my philosophy with protein supplementation.

I suggest that if you are involved with heavy training (pushing yourself and not trying to be a pretty boy with those club shirts that are tight). Here is what I found.

You can get this from Blackstarlabs and the stuff rocks (yes I will be posting articles on various online mags besides RL)

Clemson Anticataboic Cocktail (take 2 times between/after sessions-not post workout)

25 grams of Micellar Casein (Blackstarlabs frutropical)
3-5 grams of HMB
5-10% Immunogrow
5 grams of Glutamine ( I find that only severe training benefits here, other wise glutamine that effective and may be worthless)
.25 grams Vitamin C
cup of crushed ice cubes
8-12 oz of Coconut milk from cocogem
one tiny part of a banana (remember this optional and this is a P and F meal combo)

consume at 10am and 10pm and destroy everyone!

Try it out…

By the way I am not a blackstarlabs employee or profit financially from this. I endorse only what works. My example is the fraid nots ropes…they cost 9.95 and they are used for stretching (comes with a manual and exercise sheet). Tom drum is the man and his product is worth it. One supplement company contacted me 3 months ago to endorse their product line for 10 grand a year and I could not sell out since they sucked.

You’re a mad genius Clemson! Thanks for the good stuff and can’t wait for some more.

[system]

What is so special about this drink? and why wouldn’t you consume more carbs to promote recovery?

Why it is special-

(1) The first reason is the protein and fat combination tastes good. A tropical smoothie is better than a tuna smoothie! Fats have special roles and I think the lauric acid in coconut fat is very important for athletes.

(2) The micellar casein fights protein breakdown and the HMB supports the cyto-skeleton of the myofibrils when consumed in large doses (read twice or more a day).

(3) The research on body composition and casein protein is clear, and if need to be lean this is one part of the formula.

(4) The immunogrow is special and after asking a few big brains (I am no genious prophet, crazy or “mad” but not a genius) and the subtle growth IGF-1 response without the insulin getting elevated sounds paradoxical but happens. Also nutrient transfer helps here as well after about a month.

(5) This formula supports the post workout drink, not replaces it. The post workout formula I have constructed with the help of blackstarlabs does everything I need and I use this 2-3 times a week. That is the time for the carbohydrates. Growth is vital…but if your gains are being lost due to the catabolic effects of energy system training it doesn’t matter as much!

This is for swimmers primarily? - just wondering what body weight (about 170~ or so?)

• Do you find the extra 5 grams of Glut. makes a difference considering the profile of casein as opposed to Whey?
  Having said that - if this is the last shake before bed the 5 grams of Glut should be a good idea.

The HMB - I can’t comment on, though I’d consider it a ‘nice-to-have’ rather than a ‘must-have’

• Is Immunogrow a BSL’s product or a US off-the-shelf product?

• Any need for Vit E as well?

• I guess some Ecto’s that are trying to gain more can even just throw in the whole 'nanana?

(Sorry for all the questions by the way Clemson)

Ok No23…good questions.

Who is it for? Athletes doing doubles or more (such as gpp work). Swimmers benefit year round.

I find the extra 5 grams helps for only very intense training with high volumes. If the volume is not high but not intense, drop the glutamine since it is found readily.

The HMB is nice to have since the primary requirements are casein, immunogrow, and coconut milk. The formula is not cheap but not expensive to the point that it is costs too much for the regular guy.

The entire formula is found at blackstarlabs customizer area and I used the fruitropical flavor since it works well with coconut milk. I know try to consume coconut milk more because the oil is hard to integrate unless you are cooking. I suggest people warm the oil up and use water as the base for shakes if you can’t get the oil. Goya is not bad though…it is a B to a cocogems A.

I dont’ think a ectomorph should use carbs in the meal…they may get away with it being lean but the insulin rising effects chronically render post workout formulas weak.

I like to consume vitamin e the hour after meals…this makes it easy for me to keep athletes organized.

Post-workout is the growth zone and this formula supports and stablizes that growth. I will post (no pun here guys) my post workout formula.

Here is my challange…this summer will be a period of gpp for athletes…mix a five pound bag of the forumla above and got to the supermarket and get a can of coconut milk from a spanish company and tell me how it goes.Blackstar labs can help you with this and they have done it before.If it doesn’t make an impact on your training I will make you a lab lounge member for free…speaking about lablounge got to go back to quest diagnostics for the latest results of the blood work.

[ltruett]

Micellar casien… I actually got some from BSL (PC) 6 months ago. Superior stuff. Thanks for the head up on he flavor. Some people think it’s a waste of money and you can get same stuff from milk protein isolate (MPI) which is 80% casien and 20% whey. I don’t think they really understand the differences. I can say it’s a lot cheaper but too foamy and tastes weird but i got the plain flavor. Learned my lesson there. Really serious athletes should get MC, otherwise most can do fine with MPI.

[Mister_C]

@Clemson

Why it is special-

(1) The first reason is the protein and fat combination tastes good. A tropical smoothie is better than a tuna smoothie! Fats have special roles and I think the lauric acid in coconut fat is very important for athletes.

(2) The micellar casein fights protein breakdown and the HMB supports the cyto-skeleton of the myofibrils when consumed in large doses (read twice or more a day).

(3) The research on body composition and casein protein is clear, and if need to be lean this is one part of the formula.

(4) The immunogrow is special and after asking a few big brains (I am no genious prophet, crazy or “mad” but not a genius) and the subtle growth IGF-1 response without the insulin getting elevated sounds paradoxical but happens. Also nutrient transfer helps here as well after about a month.

(5) This formula supports the post workout drink, not replaces it. The post workout formula I have constructed with the help of blackstarlabs does everything I need and I use this 2-3 times a week. That is the time for the carbohydrates. Growth is vital…but if your gains are being lost due to the catabolic effects of energy system training it doesn’t matter as much!

Ok No23…good questions.

Who is it for? Athletes doing doubles or more (such as gpp work). Swimmers benefit year round.

I find the extra 5 grams helps for only very intense training with high volumes. If the volume is not high but not intense, drop the glutamine since it is found readily.

The HMB is nice to have since the primary requirements are casein, immunogrow, and coconut milk. The formula is not cheap but not expensive to the point that it is costs too much for the regular guy.

The entire formula is found at blackstarlabs customizer area and I used the fruitropical flavor since it works well with coconut milk. I know try to consume coconut milk more because the oil is hard to integrate unless you are cooking. I suggest people warm the oil up and use water as the base for shakes if you can’t get the oil. Goya is not bad though…it is a B to a cocogems A.

I dont’ think a ectomorph should use carbs in the meal…they may get away with it being lean but the insulin rising effects chronically render post workout formulas weak.

I like to consume vitamin e the hour after meals…this makes it easy for me to keep athletes organized.

Post-workout is the growth zone and this formula supports and stablizes that growth. I will post (no pun here guys) my post workout formula.

Here is my challange…this summer will be a period of gpp for athletes…mix a five pound bag of the forumla above and got to the supermarket and get a can of coconut milk from a spanish company and tell me how it goes.Blackstar labs can help you with this and they have done it before.If it doesn’t make an impact on your training I will make you a lab lounge member for free…speaking about lablounge got to go back to quest diagnostics for the latest results of the blood work.

I’ll take you up on this, as I will be doing doubles all the way through July and catabolism might be my worst enemy this summer cuz I’m a pretty skinny guy as it is. So if I wanna buy the whole formula off blackstarlabs what % would I use for each thing because they dont exactly have exact gram conversions? The only reason I would buy the entire thing off of there is because there arent any quality places around here where I could pick that stuff up.

[system]

Update…

Here is a small mistake in my “recipe” and thanks to a member email I made one slight error. 4 oz of coconut milk is 18 grams of fat…twice a day equals 36 grams…the original would yield nearly 80 grams of fat! Also people using oil would be three tbs and water. Milk is fat and water…

We do the following

Preworkout uses Jayrobbs shaker with or preworkout formula(5-10minutes)

During (we use ICE from xtreme formulations and will experiment with other combos)

Weights (nasal spray combo for intense days)

Postworkout (intense is a custom blend from Blackstarlabs, sometimes go, sometimes just a regular meal (tempo))

we use mutiple shaker bottles and mini tubs from BLS…one tetrapack from cocogem.

Really serious athletes should get MC, otherwise most can do fine with MPI.

Yep…since 5 pounds of fat is important for elite athletes…

try it out.

So if I wanna buy the whole formula off blackstarlabs what % would I use for each thing because they dont exactly have exact gram conversions? The only reason I would buy the entire thing off of there is because there arent any quality places around here where I could pick that stuff up.

I am not a huge computer guy so just call them…5-10% is fine…3 grams of HMB seems to do the trick…just give those guys a buzz.

priority is on the immunogrow and MICELLAR casein…then add the HMB and glutamine is optional (only for national levels) most don’t respond but from reading the AIDS research and athletes descriptions of the european circuit and heavy racing I think it may be a help and no harm to try. The t-mag article was quite convincing but I noticed the immune systems of those that got the cheaper blends were not as primed.

habert et al. Glutamineand Antioxidant Supplementation Increases Body Cell Mass in AIDS Patients with Weight Loss, Nutrition, 11. 1999

(notes on above)I know a grad student tell me some patients was eating 5k cals with real food and protein powders…

[z_bumbi]

@Clemson

priority is on the immunogrow and MICELLAR casein…then add the HMB and glutamine is optional (only for national levels) most don’t respond but from reading the AIDS research and athletes descriptions of the european circuit and heavy racing I think it may be a help and no harm to try. The t-mag article was quite convincing but I noticed the immune systems of those that got the cheaper blends were not as primed.

habert et al. Glutamineand Antioxidant Supplementation Increases Body Cell Mass in AIDS Patients with Weight Loss, Nutrition, 11. 1999

How hard does at atlethe have to train to compare with someone who have AIDS regarding the use of Glutamine? I have never seen a study that compares the two cases or for that mather shows some numbers of real decline in glutamine in an atlehte if the food selection is good.

@Clemson

(notes on above)I know a grad student tell me some patients was eating 5k cals with real food and protein powders…

In that particular study?

[system]

@z_bumbi

How hard does at atlethe have to train to compare with someone who have AIDS regarding the use of Glutamine? I have never seen a study that compares the two cases or for that mather shows some numbers of real decline in glutamine in an atlehte if the food selection is good.

In that particular study?

I agree…when I read the T-mag article I was convinced that glutamine was a waste of money. It so available…why do need it in isolated amounts? for about a year I didn’t bother using it 'till I swung by Boston and picked the brain of some researchers involved with trauma and nutrition…they said that glutamine is not necessary for athletes but can help the profile of a recovery formula. Drinking a glutamine shake is a waste.

From what I know, the two AIDS patients that used the l-glutamine stated that they felt less symptoms of illness (no difference in muscle mass). They took it in addition to the normal diet and prescription drugs and when your paying hundreds of dollars for medication supplements become a nice to have. The cocktail has enough protein and it is expected that the athlete have a great diet before they start using them. Again the glutamine is optional…hence my statements above. The immune system seems to be supported from it…

[Shaf]

Nasal spray combo? You talking OTC asthma/sinus stuff or something different?

[no23]

I don’t regard glutamine as useless, I think it may have a positive effect on people trying to maintain mass while cutting weight or during periods of reduced cal.s.
Also this reduced cal.s period would put increased stress on the body so it would also have a postive effect on the immune system.
It may also be something to consider right before bed along with the casein-type shake.
The qty. is a big issue as the levels in the body are very large and to have any direct effect I think larger qty’s would have to be taken - but this is just my opion based on different readings etc.
Charles Polquin has reccomended large doses (post workout I think - I will check the reference). However bear in mind as always with CP and JB that they are focused primarily on the BBing domain.

Clemson - what does N4D have to say about Glut.?